B-Team Jiu Jitsu: Craig Jones, Nicky Rod, and Nicky Ryan | Lex Fridman Podcast #363

How would a kangaroo attack a human Knock them down and then they choke him The kangaroos do they attack each other Yeah they don't choke each other you Don't believe me you don't have I mean probably the most annoying one Was obviously the one where I had Gordon And Amber I was like tap bro and he Wouldn't have so I let him out I didn't get surgery I didn't do Essentially at your rehab I just have no ACL with my left leg so what's it like Having a surgery because you've got two Options surgery rehab only Nikki goes I'll do nothing yeah yeah I mean what Could possibly go wrong if you're the World's best Grappler hates you and You're gently provoking and behind the Scenes every day well I mean in Texas And you've stolen his brother held him For ransom it is like a story of a Shitty Western the last part of a Difficult wake up for me is I try to Find a sad movie and at least cry about A pound out that really gets me of the Line what are the rules on the streets Do you think if you're on stairs you Would have finished the joke I yeah I Mean for sure who knew that The Cure To the dagestani wrestling With the Aussies The following is a conversation with Craig Jones Nikki rod and Nikki Ryan who Together with Ethan krellenston and

Others make up the B Team a legendary Jiu Jitsu team here in Austin Texas it Was formed after the so-called donahar Death squad the team headed by John Donoher split up continue with Jiu Jitsu And B Team Jiu Jitsu both located here In Austin Texas There's been a lot of trash talk back And forth including accusations of Greasing and steroid use And I as a practitioner and fan of Grappling Jiu Jitsu and martial arts in General and here for it To see the best Grapplers in history go At it both on the mat and on Instagram I like the people on both teams and Train with both and am really happy to See the exciting rapid evolution of the Sport that these athletes and coaches Are catalyzing This is the Luxe Friedman podcast to Support it please check out our sponsors In the description and now dear friends Here's Craig Jones Nikki rod and Nikki Ryan Craig can you introduce everyone Yep so we got Nikki Rod here Brown Bell Two-time 80cc silver medalist Nikki Ryan Here That's it Okay who are you and I'm Craig Jones Also a two-time 80cc silver medalist Silver medalist so the number one loser Number one loser and maybe a little bit

More your bio says widely known as the Black belt Slayer hails from New Jersey The land of pizza and biceps ah yes That's pretty accurate okay you also do Carry gun on you a lot yeah I keep I Keep it keep it loaded you know anything On me you have one today uh in the car That was a mistake that was your first Mistake yeah I think you're too close Uh and you are Nikki Ryan what else is There what else do we know Gordon Ryan's Brother Gordon Ryan's brother All right so and you're all together uh Part of the leadership of the the B Team Here in Austin Let's just get out some introductory Questions what in general accomplishment Of the things you mentioned you're most Proud of I mean I'm proud just to not Have to work a full-time job just to get By on the [ __ ] I've done so far yeah Honestly just making money of a thing You love exactly yeah when was the first Time you made money on a thing you love Uh probably a jiu jitsu tournament I Think maybe in Abu Dhabi where I won a Thousand dollars thought I was rich yeah Yeah would you spend a thousand dollars On Probably something bad probably drugs or Something at the time maybe blew it at The after party That's a good introduction to Craig so What about you when's the first time you

Made money with anju Jitsu or what What's actually stepping back like What's the thing you're most proud of is It a similar kind of thing I think I Think I'm most proud of is uh I mean for Sure two 80cc silver medals which hurts Because you're so close to getting that Gold but uh you know it takes time I'm Understanding that you know supportive Jiu Jitsu takes quite a while to be at The tip top to be the absolute best so Uh and I'm just being consistent in my Training and my craft and you know get That number one spot one day what Failure or loss is the most painful to You I don't know I could probably have a Pretty short-term memory so my losses I Just like I'll just forget about uh yeah I mean for sure uh my loss at at this Past 80 cc in the finals you know that One sound good because I definitely Thought I I was gonna win I mean like it Takes a while to produce the skills or The reactions more so that you need to To have to be you know to be that number One pound for pound guy Um and you know uh pre-adcc I was coming Off an injury so it took me a little bit To find the right mentality and Physicality that I needed in order to You know get the wins that required gold So yeah it's just process Interesting you keep saying process like

It takes a while to build up so you're Not like thinking of a loss like ADCC is Like uh a specific failures you're not You haven't gone long enough in a Particular process to being a champ well I mean for me I'm coming I'm closing in On five years of specifically Jitsu Training I'm about about four and a half Right now and um yeah it's just the you Kind of you constantly have these ups And downs in training where like as long As you stay consistent you'll have a Gradual race but you know it's still You'll have these uh Peaks and lows and You know just just trying to get better Every day I'm definitely not where I Will be in in a few years in a few years From now but my striving to get there Are you actually a brown belt was that a Joke Brown bow yeah you're a brown bow Like how many stripes uh no Stripes no Stripes stripeless okay is that part of The process that you're working through Definitely probably process I mean I Think a black belt is just based upon How much knowledge you have obviously Like you know if it's talking Competitive wise like from when I Started I was able to beat most black Belts that's just kind of how I was Gifted from my my wrestling experience And uh you know the time will come when It's right but I'm not in a rush at all I'm I'm continuing I just kind of take

Every day for what it is and try to Improve upon that I mean I want to give Him the black belt Nikki Ryan says he's Not ready Are you guys like us no gee folks do you Take that seriously like the black belt Or like how much does it come into play Into yeah I mean it's like if you're out Said you know it's based off of Knowledge Um not just you know what you do out on The competition match because you know Like he said he had years of wrestling Experience and obviously he's very Physically gifted uh so we grade based Off of the amount of knowledge that you Have Hey how do you measure knowledge I think teaching is a good measurement Of it like how well you're able to show The moves um and you know really make Sure that you have an understanding of What you're doing that's an interesting Rank it's like um it's something that Takes many years to accomplish and for a Lot of people it's truly meaningful it's Like it represents A particular step in a journey But for you guys it's almost like Different because you've been so focused On competition That I guess if you take it seriously it Is a big step for you too like it's Martial artists that that's bigger than

Just being like top of the world Competitors right so I thought it was a Joke you guys are actually taking it Seriously like studies of Rambo there's A brown belt and he's and you're taking Seriously the rank of black belt and Like it's part of it's part of your Journey think about time I get a block About I'll I'll be no more pound for a Pound I think it'd be pretty uh nice to Accomplish that as a brown belt and then Maybe toss the black belt on top maybe Get promoted on on the podium What do you guys uh do you love winning Or hate losing more I definitely don't hate losing if it Pays the bills I don't mind oh really um Yeah but honestly if I win I feel more Relief than anything rather than like Excitement and stuff I'm like oh [ __ ] Thank God that's over you know I hate Losing for sure Um but I understand that it's necessary To get you know to get to where you want To be Um and then winning is like I mean what I think winning is probably the closest You can think you can get to like heroin Or something because I mean we're on a Like if you do have extreme success in a Torment that you've been you know Adamant about training for and competing In for a while and you end up winning it I mean I feel like you're on that high

For days at a time afterwards heroin's Gonna be better you think so I'm I'm a Stick with no but I'm not gonna sucked In to win Okay I guess that's a good boy yeah But you know like uh because you you Come from a little bit of a wrestling Culture one of the things I really love Is at the end of the match when they Lose they just there's no they just run Off They're like almost pissed off it's like Some mixture of anger and frustration at Themselves I think I think sometimes That people like freak out on the mat And I think that's just a to show Everybody like they're acting like they Cared a lot and really maybe they didn't Work uh enough to to you know get to Where they want to where they expect it To be and they lost and then they had This big boost of emotion like after Their after their loss but uh yeah I Mean I shouldn't I think you just cry in The mirror and not to everybody else you Know Um what have you ever cried watching a Movie I don't think I've ever cried Period okay have you cried watching a Movie not yet not yet The Notebook I try To avoid those but it's actually I lie Actually Titanic the last part of a Difficult wake up for me is I try to

Find a sad movie and at least cry about A pound out that really gets me over the Line low energy cutting the tears Um there's other following uh liquids I Could talk to you about but let's just Let's just let's just continue on low Energy what uh Um what about you Nikki uh love of Winning versus hate of losing I'm a very Competitive person so I for sure hate Losing more than I like winning uh I I Do think it's something that's kind of Held me back over the uh the past few Years because uh it makes it so that I'm Not as active as I should be because It's like I really hate that feeling of You know after a match that you just Lost uh so it kind of prevents me from Competing so it's definitely something I Need to work past so like when you think About a competition the possibility of Losing which is always there in Competition is the thing that like Weighs heavy on you in in the months and Weeks leading up to yeah my whole life You know my financial stability Everything depends on you know my Ability to go out there and compete and My ability to teach uh so you know it's It's a huge hit to the brand if you lose So you know leading up to matches that's That's definitely something that's in my Mind I know so you guys are like World-class athletes but for me more

Like a hobbyist competitor I compete a Lot The thing I was uh because I really Wanted to win the thing I was probably Most afraid of is not just losing but Like embarrassing myself yeah even even Actually winning by stalling that was The thing I hated the most about myself In terms of crying in the mirror it's Like being too afraid You take risks after I'm up on two Points or something I think you got a Competition sometimes it's good to take The emotion out of it it's too easy Sometimes to like uh think about all my Girls and in the crowd my family's Watching like I want to win because They're there but the highest level if You're emotional at all no that's Affecting you Yeah that's tough though That's tough especially like leading up To when you're on the map maybe but Leading up to it I think it's okay to be Emotional prior like you know if we know 80cc or is coming up and we have a big Match like definitely I'll go out in Practice and I'll I'll visualize I'll Put myself in that competition that way When it's game time it's like I've been There a thousand times already so not The actual competition but even leading Up to it like stepping on the mat like All the walk the walk towards it all

That all that stuff like I'll do the Same exact warm-up for weeks on end and Until my competition day comes that's Why that way you know when I compete I'm Just like oh it's another Tuesday I Practice Uh what about you Craig how do you Prepare mentally for tournament like ADCC I push it completely out of my mind Don't even think about it try to avoid Any visualization any rituals warm-ups Anything like that block it out until The last second yeah try not to think About it I just gotta training to have Fun learn a bit so I try to approach Competition the exact same way I don't Warm up a training do very little Warm-up for competition Uh-huh and uh you just step on the mat Step on the mats My Philosophy is There's no warm-ups on the street We're so vastly different All right uh so you look legit don't Warm up no I probably should now I'm 31 But I would just like in the gym take it Easy the first round you know like if I Look around the room and Nikki Ryan said I might go all right we'll have an Easier first round today uh So even for like the most high stakes Matches You try to push it out you don't even Think about it What about like all this social like

Instagram posts you have to do about That match you just make a joke out of It and kind of yeah I mean that's Actually kind of pretty silly you know We're just wrestling each other you know Yeah we put the meaning into it but to Someone that doesn't follow the sport it Looks stupid well all of human existence Is pretty silly like what are we doing None of us really know what's going on We'll kind of have sex to reproduce we Get hungry we eat and then we're all Chasing money in cars and whatever the Hell in a capital Society or we worship A dictator in a authoritarian regime Yeah and then we get off on we'll let Power abuse us and then we just murder Others because we get off on it yeah and Then eventually all of us will die Because the sun will run out of energy Because colonizing other planets is very Difficult so not what matters it's a Good uh good philosophy it's pretty Pretty good that's exactly how does the Sun run out of energy They called me there Uh it's burnout it's like a it's a Nuclear fusion engine that eventually Burns out like when you get tired of Training yeah it's never happened I try To get tired I was like dude it's like It's not working All right cool so you legit don't care About losing it doesn't weigh heavy on

You I try not to list like if I win I Try to block out all the compliments all The niceties and stuff so I try to do The same with losing it's happened move On to the next one you know don't dwell On it too much and sometimes make a joke Out of it yeah exactly winning or losing With the right joke we can make money Off of the events that's transpired That's what's most important excellent Thank you I have a bunch of your merch Oh nice thank you this one's the Jordan Borrowers ripoff Uh all I see is silver The way pronounce boroughs is is very is Very very sexy okay Um I throw lions at people and I try to Guess your reaction like sometimes I'll Say something to Nikki and I'll be like All right that's probably crossing the Line you know I mean we'll turn it down To the public so yeah yeah so it's not Just right you have to think this is Crossing the line yeah yeah I get as Close to it as possible yeah I feel like You can't really and then cross it Just just a little bit just a little bit Yeah okay Speaking of which uh you said that I'm Switzerland in World War II since I'm Friends with both you and Gordon and John Uh are you a Hitler or Stalin by the way In this analogy would you like to be

Hitler or Stalin and should you make a T-shirt out of it or I mean an Aussie T-shirt I don't know how well that sells Yeah I think it would you know I think That let's brainstorm on this one Offline I think since Hitler lost so you got Second place in World War II yeah that Makes you Hitler anyway uh in to the Degree that you can Can you tell the story of how the time You've had with the Donna her death Squad and why you split up I competed Against Gordon for ADCC And ebi in 2017 and I remember I Competed against my ADCC and then we had The Ebola event and then I had a Kasai I Used to compete all the time every week I wouldn't even do the prep preparation Or anything I'd just be like trying to Do seminars make money and then jump in And compete I remember I showed up to Kasai after I faced him twice and there Were like four locker rooms and they put Me with all the DDS guys it was just me And all of DDS and I think we competed The week weekend before so I thought it Was going to be super awkward but it was Actually it was actually pretty chill And the Kasai was in New York and they Suggested to come train that week so I Came trained hung out with them a bit uh Ultimately the goal was to move to America and join a bigger team just

Because that flight to Australia's death Australia is so far away from everywhere It's kind of like not realistic to base Yourself in Australia when all the Tournaments are in America and then I Went and trained with guys and they just Had a massive uh massively deep talent Pool in that room like show up to like a Meant to be 7 A.M actual 8 AM class uh On Brazilian time it'd be like 100 People in there maybe I don't know how Many black belts but a ton of elite guys And I was coming from Australia Um training with Lachlan Giles but Really that room was pretty shallow and Like most people had serious jobs and Stuff so it was like basically me just Trading with Lachlan maybe a couple of Other guys and then to go to New York And have access to a a wide array of Training partners and guys that are Training twice each day I feel like That's what you really need you need People that can train as much as you are We're humbled humbled in that room at First for sure because my style at the Time was basically a rip-off version of What they were doing yeah leglocks came In I remember just watching Eddie Cummings Non-Stop and just seeing this Guy rip people's legs off and I was like You know what that's probably a good Move you know that looks like an easier Path to Victory than trying to beat

These guys at what they what they're Good at already you know My Philosophy At the time was if it's bothering old Brazilians yeah it's bothering them for A reason yeah it's probably effective And that's the path I took to sort of Try to rip off their moves and then Obviously to go into that room try to do Them to them it's going to be a bit more Difficult All right so that's how it started How did you end up here how do we end up Here we're in Austin Texas I mean I like To think of Puerto Rico as Apocalypse Now John Donahue as Colonel Kurtz Things go very weird in the jungle And the teams went in two different Directions But honestly I mean it's not really my Story to tell I had some uh issues with Some of those people at the time of the Split I got along very well with John I Feel like me and him connected very well I don't know why that was maybe it was Just because of the he missed homie Missed a familiar accent Australian New Zealand accent uh But I mean I basically followed Nikki Left with Nikki sort of that Core group Of guys left with Nikki and I mean I Just back there was personal problems And I just backed Nikki basically got it Just sticking on you for a bit is there A part of you that you know finds it

Heartbreaking that DDS split up this Part of you miss working with John and Everybody Now can you still man the case for that I mean I miss certain aspects of it but I also do prefer the freedom of being Apart from it it's obviously a very Strict regime under John danaher you Know obviously as parts of it I miss the Past the public doesn't see off John the Behind the scenes banter I feel like He's very conscious of the image he Portrays to the world but basically it Closed doors he's always making jokes Always finding I guess more in line with The Australian kiwi sort of culture but You don't really see that in the public Class so that perspective I do miss that Relationship with John in terms of Setting aside personal differences Gordon was a good training partner Definitely a good training partner to Train with uh but obviously the negative Things we can't really talk about Outweighed all of those things and we Obviously had to make a decision to Leave but yes that happened in the Jungle the things happen in the jungle They'll never be spoken of but I Personally cannot speak up yeah but Obviously I do miss certain aspects like I mean not nothing's all bad nothing's All good you know Yeah this goes back to your like uh

Everything we're doing is silly yeah Exactly that's why I didn't get people To take it so serious martial arts so Serious just It's just pretty stupid really Especially in the key it looks just It looks bad and then I mean it's pretty Silly with with and without the ghee It's just a bunch of Apes what's silly About no game what's silly about the Ghee and just mixed and matched bottoms There you know what I mean wait which One yeah I see what you're doing Brother You come to my house I defend my people All right You know this is we're gonna go to every Dark place apparently Um Nick how did you get with uh DDS like What was that Journey like is there uh Try to see if there's things that you Remember fondly that that you've gotten From the experience all right so the way I started um training with DDS Um initially I was training for like Well initially I was I was a bouncer Right I was I dropped out of college to Pursue this uh Fitness modeling career I End up signing with a Willamina models Up in New York and I was like trying to Get in better shape and while I was Bouncing kind of the talk of like you Know who stuffer came up between the Wrestlers and a few of the bouncers to

Train Jiu Jitsu and uh you know they Convinced me go to a practice and and I Went to my first practice over there and Uh I for the most part I just controlled Everybody got on top of them was able to Avoid like kind of like you know shitty Submissions because I had I had an Awareness of the sport and you know I'm A fan of fighting and whatnot so um you Know I kind of understood it pretty well And then soon after that I joined a School and my second week of Jiu Jitsu I Started competing had pretty good Success you know I was like subbing a Few black belts and beating everybody Like you know pretty decisively with Points and stuff and about three months Into training locally I got connected With uh Gordon Gordon Ryan and John Denver up in New York and I started I Committed to you know make the drive up There as many days as I could at the at The time I live in South Jersey and I Was about two and a half hour three hour Drive without traffic to New York to Where where in South Jersey Gloucester County Um Clayton New Jersey specifically but Gloucester County yeah so it was about Is about about 130 miles and without Traffic you know about two and a half Hours or so but on the way back man we It'd be three plus sometimes you know Catching that Rush Hour what year was

This do you remember this was in 2018 For a bit I forget how young you are Yeah I was there before before all that All right cool uh anyway you're doing The long drive and then and then and Then what yeah doing a long drive and Then uh you know once I won 80cc trials I was able to make a couple bucks and Then you know I got my silver medal 80cc And I was able to afford to live up There in New York and in North Jersey Area so I lived up there trained there Full time every day and uh you know just Kind of sucks with the team throughout Throughout the turbulent times and found Ourselves in Austin in the jungle in the Jungle in the things we shall not speak Of What uh what are there things that you Remember that you've learned from John Donahue from your Italian spent with him Yeah I mean I definitely learned a ton From uh from John and the team as a Whole like uh you know it's you have to Be the guy that asks questions in in the Type of environment right because There's not it's not you're not going to Get singled out to be that specific uh Like star or the the best guy in the Room when you have all these other you Know stud athletes so I really had to Seek out and and figure out the kind of Questions that I needed to ask and um Once I became a bit more verbal with my

Training and you know uh I I'm showing I'm I'm expressing all my Curiosities About grappling to these guys definitely Help boost my uh boost my technique and My career as a whole yeah did you Understand what kind of stuff like Technically you want to get good at what Fits your body what like what would be Good for you what are your weaknesses And all that so initially and when I Started grappling I had an innate Ability to just get to opponents back so I was like all right I'm gonna I get Into back let me get let me perfect Controlling the back and then submitting Opponent via real naked choke Um and then besides that I really focus On leg lock defense and then eventually Came the variety lock password you know I'm uh I'm really good at body like Passing my opponents now and then and um Yeah just takes a quite a long time Because you have to find uh different Sequences and then there's always these Uh an abundance of opportunities that Your opponent gets from these specific Sequences so takes a while Is there part of you that finds the fact That DJs split up heartbreaking Um I definitely you know having one Person to go to that runs practice every Day that's you know consistent Um it was definitely it was definitely Definitely a gift but now I'm also

Gifted with many many other partners Have Nikki Ryan Um you know Craig Jones Yeah yeah uh we have Ethan Cruella scene Damian Anderson so a full team of Knowledgeable athletes that I can Continue to go to with uh multiple Questions but yeah definitely definitely Uh it took me some time to adjust to to Training or to learning from you know uh Specifically my team and not just one Person We should mention for people just Listening because you can't visually see That Nikki Ryan is currently terrified And Craig Jones is currently enjoying But anyway uh can you talk about your uh Nikki can you talk about your time with DDS I started training when I was like Around 13 Um you know my brother Gordon had Started prior to me and uh I really just Went into training just as like a means To exercise and lose weight at the Beginning because I was pretty fat as a Kid so I went to the first class loved It and then just started training every Day at uh at Gary's gym Brunswick and Then during the summer when I get off From school they would take me up to New York to uh to train under John And you know I just absolutely loved it I knew what I wanted to do with my life At a young age so I ended up dropping

Out of school actually after my my Freshman year in high school so yeah 15 I ended up dropping out and just Pursuing Jiu Jitsu full time uh you know Training every day up in the uh the blue Basement like what aspects of Jiu Jitsu Was Um made you know that this is the thing For you it was just something I just Enjoyed being you know like on the mats Every day I love that there's you know a Problem solving aspect to it Um so it's you know it's mentally Challenging it's physically challenging Helps me get in shape so I just yeah Right off the bat I knew I loved it Okay so uh then we'll go to the Jungle What happened in the jungle And in general like uh I like this I like this this is like This like shroud of mystery that she'll Never be penetrated that should never be Like we've got a book deal it's coming Monday obviously left high school he's Not riding him Uh okay I'll do the Russian translation Okay So what are what are things that you Enjoy that you remember from working With John Donahue yeah I mean you know Obviously he's considered one of the Best coaches in the world Um you know very charismatic guy when You see him in person uh you know I

Pretty much was you know kind of raised In the DDS you know that's where I spent The the majority of my time every day so I obviously had very deep connections You know with John my brother uh Gary Um you know even Eddie Cummings and Stuff back then Um so obviously I miss interacting with Those guys every day and uh you know It's like they said it's it's good to Have somebody to kind of crack the whip At you every day uh and John John was Very good at that when you're like Younger in your teenage years you can Kind of you like have to get humbled Right there's like a process to that Yeah for sure and uh it's a pretty good Room to get humbled in I guess yeah Exactly I mean I I was uh I started Training with them just when like Everybody started to break out Gary was Like the biggest name at the time uh Just because he had 180 CC trials Already and uh he had a crazy match with KRON at uh cron Gracie at ADCC but Eddie Was just starting to break out Gordon Just started winning ebi so I I started Training under John you know right when When everything was exploding What are the good things about life About Jiu Jitsu you learn from your Brother both me and my brother never Really wanted to you know work a Full-time job doing something that we

Hate Um and he was always you know a very Confident person so he just went you Know full fully started pursuing Jiu Jitsu Um so I'm very happy that you know he Did that and I ended up following in his Footsteps because you can ask these guys I'm a lazy sack of [ __ ] out of outside Of the the uh the mat uh so that's That's definitely one thing that uh I'm Very grateful for That he paved the way like you can you Can make money doing stuff you love yeah Exactly and he was he was a big reason You know why my parents uh eventually Let me drop out of school because you Know when when they were coming up there Was there's no money in the sport it was Very hard to make a full living like if You wanted to actually make a living You'd eventually have to transfer to MMA And I feel like Gordon and Gary and Those guys were you know some of the First people to make a very good living Off of Just Jujitsu but this part of you Find it heartbreaking That you've split up from DDs but also From your brother in terms of spending Time on the mat every day yeah for sure You know I mean growing up you know Obviously he's my big brother I looked Up to him a lot uh so I definitely like I said I miss interacting with those

Guys I was pretty much raised you know In that blue basement you know that John Was like you know a father figure to me Um so I definitely you know miss miss Seeing those guys every day Do you have animosity towards Gordon and Does he have animosity toward you and uh What is the source of that and do you Think you'll ever be able to forgive Each other Definitely initially during the uh the Initial split we definitely hated each Other at the beginning Um but it's definitely started to uh to Calm down actually just prior to you Know all this social media drama that's Going on currently He had reached out to me and I was Literally like the first time that we Have actually talked since uh since the Split happened so he didn't talk to each Other for was it now like almost two Years Um and that was the first time that you Know we interacted again and um overall You know he wasn't you know aggressive Towards me I wasn't aggressive towards Him you were cracking some jokes so Hopefully the the animosity is going Down There's this uh Godfather quote That I wrote down obviously rewatched it Uh from uh from the dawn from Don Corleone Vito Corleone the strength of a

Family like the strength of an army lies In its loyalty to each other is there Some aspect of family that you miss of The blood that kind of connects you that You can count on yeah my parents you Know they both raised us that you know Like family is everything you never you Know betray your family or anything like That uh so I definitely you know miss Him from time to time okay imagine You're like 40 years from now Sitting on a porch with a shotgun Drinking whiskey looking over like all The land you've conquered Looking back to this moment is the Reason you split up a [ __ ] reason Or is it a good reason from the Perspective of the king who has now Conquered the lands have proven himself Have done everything I think it was Definitely like a justifiable reason for The team splitting like it just with the Way things were going it just was not Going to work with you know all of us in The same room together it was a started You know affecting training people Didn't feel comfortable and things look So I definitely think that it was a Justifiable reason to split The things that happened in the jungle Yeah to be told about in the book so Give me an audiobook or is it just gonna Be who's gonna voice it might be a play A musical yeah on Broadway

Um how's your singing voice mine's not So good but Nikki has a beautiful voice Does he of an Angel like a head bet okay Speaking of the the social media drama I Should mention that I've talked to Recently to Gordon a bunch I've talked to him about talking to you Guys and he's had nothing but really Nice things to say about you Nick Ryan And he has had nothing but bad things What were some of the things Um Well let's just go to the social media First because The the Social Media stuff that he said Publicly is just like a warm-up it's Like uh foreplay I guess so Gordon sent You nicarad Flowers for Valentine's Day uh posting On Instagram quote I've been [ __ ] him In every round in competition since we Met in 2018 the least I can do is buy Him flowers We didn't get the flowers yeah He sent it to the wrong address he did Yeah what do you think he sent it it was Close but it was wrong did you Appreciate the Romantic gesture I did I Was looking forward to the flowers and Potentially chocolates in there but uh You know it was a bit of a letdown uh Can you describe your recent match Against Gordon uh the ebi match okay so Ebi match on UFC Fight Pass it was a 20

Minute match And uh immediately uh no match starts I Pull guard and then I stand up he pulls Guard and we have this uh kind of like Back and forth where he's trying to dig For under hooks trying to get on top of Me and he can't really find success uh And now and and then in the midst of me Trying to work my body lock pass uh Going to be able to underhook a leg and We end up in a leg entanglement and then I'm able to transfer that leg and Tango To a 50 50 position still like still in The leg entanglement uh from that 50 50 Position I'm able to uh separate his Feet and and actually get a few pops and He actually said I broke his foot in That exchange with a toe hold the Toe Hold yep and uh you know after after That uh um we had a a bit more I was I Was just being uh working on top Position trying to get my body lock time Runs out and we go to overtime and over Time can you hold on a second actually What does it mean to break a leg was I Was very confused about okay so is this Like a expression or what do you mean What are you broken which part breaks in A Toe Hold okay so in a Toe Hold uh There's a few different grades of it Like you could get a a few pops and have Some have some you know walking issues Um and people consider that a break and Then you could break it fully and have

Your foot be like a limp noodle you know I think what were those Achilles well is The front of the Achilles or something I Mean probably the ligaments I mean it's Funny like a lot of people say they Broke something but like to me you break Bones you tear ligaments so I would Imagine you probably had a great three Tier Grade three how hard do you think is it I always wondered that with um with like A straight foot lock how hard is it to Break the shin or like the actual bones Versus the tear stuff depends how many Steroids they're on And obviously how much Euro you're one Of the few guys that I have actually Broken bones in competition uh uh yeah Have I oh yeah a couple yeah wow which Bone did you break A spiral fracture of the fibula How did you break it oh it's a heel hook If any always used to say heel hooks Don't work leglocks don't work but Unfortunately age gets the best of all Of us I think he had some mileage on Those ligaments yeah and the bone I Guess yeah so it's actually what the the Bone yeah his ankle like disconnected From the tibia and the fibula but the Fibula definitely snaps pretty bad Though nice facility The Dynamics of that okay anyway they Went into overtime what happened in

Overtime okay we're having overtime Let's see trying to hang oh okay I go Defense first uh whistle blows I'm able To escape in like 17 seconds and then Immediately after I go on his back and He gets out in exactly 17 seconds I'm Like [ __ ] all right I thought I had a Good start and then uh he gets on my Back right after that and uh he's able To ride me out for pretty much the Entire round After that he uh I got back on his back He escapes him maybe like a minute and Some change uh I think where I went Wrong in the overtime is I should have Went I should have been less adamant About chasing the submission and more Aware of collecting time if I kind of uh Diverted my attention towards acquiring You know time on the clock it would have Been you know more my favor but yeah uh At the end of my uh overtime round I Would I'm able to lock up every naked Choke over the face but there just Wasn't enough time to fully finish you Know I got a few seconds of squeeze in There I didn't have enough uh time to Adjust then Good do you think if you're on stairs You would have finished the choke I yeah I mean for sure for sure if you're on Gear it you're you're changing the Biology of your body right you're Adjusting your DNA for sure if I

Adjusted my DNA I mean it's a finish Easy you're implying you're a natural Athlete oh I'm definitely not a Triathlete yeah Heavy implication Okay uh so for people who don't know That the ebi rules it's an interesting Rule structure where the overtime you Put yourself in a in like the worst Possible position and the task is to Escape and then the other person gets The same thing uh what do you guys think About that rule set I I like it just Because I first of all I don't I don't like the Idea of having to put somebody on my Back but I do like the definitive answer In the match like either you escaped in Time or you got you know written out so The absolutely like you have a you get To the final winner that's great I'd Much rather have that than a close Decision and it kind of goes other way What about you I mean honestly there's All the different rules when I look at The Rose sets I just try to think of What rule said I could beat that Individual in and I sort of geared Myself towards that That's really the strategy there I think There's some guys that like uh that Stall a lot that you would love to have Ebi over time with at the end you know They're stalling until they have to give

Us a good position but then there's some Guys that are so good in those positions I'm like oh maybe we just do a regular Match you know what are the rules on the Streets the streets no time limit Yeah that's one of it there's also like Concrete and cars biting biting yeah Bulking Yeah so you don't like that rule set are There some people you would prefer in The street as a rule set me probably not Uh I don't know the ebi I mean It's Tricky you know it depends on the Opponent which rule said I'd want to do Uh what about Unica what do you think About the rule set of ebi yeah so I Think ebi is is very good from a Spectator point of view you know people Find it uh very entertaining to watch Um you know because your people want to See submissions and you're putting People you're putting the athletes in a Position where you know you have like The highest percentage submission in the Sport so obviously you're going to get a Lot of submissions Um My issue with it is it is a rule set That allows somebody that's overall Worse at Jiu Jitsu to win a match you Know a guy can go out there and just Stall and just get completely dominated For the entirety of Regulation and then He gets to start on the guy's back so

That's that's one my uh my one issue With it but also I mean it's interesting To see Like the best people in the world have To be put in a really bad position and To see how good their escapes are for Example yeah it's interesting yeah but But it doesn't feel like uh realistic It's it's a fun thing to watch but it Doesn't feel like The real fight yeah it feels weird I'll claim it if I start in overtime on Someone and finish them I'll claim it But if they submit me and over time I'm Lost you're going to deny yeah it's good The issue is people like stalling to Just win the overtime so where you got This guy his whole training camp is just Not get subbed and and win the overtime It's a bit boring By the way I have a rose behind you if Somebody gave me a Valentine's flower so If you if you missed the one from Gordon I got one for you well I'd appreciate That I think it's good to feel love yeah All right Um So what did you learn from that match Like a takeaways technically speaking Like what uh what what do you need to Work on well I learned that uh I am Pretty good Yeah pretty good uh I got a you know a Few I know exactly what my weakness is

You know it's the the leg lock Department and I'm doing I'm doing a lot Um to to you know get better in that Specific aspect in defense attack I Would say yeah but attack defense Re-attacks Um even if I wanted to offensively enter Leg you know I could use some work there As well Um but I feel like once I solidify like Um my like if I come up become a black Belt specifically in the leg lock Department I feel like I'd be Unstoppable If you Nicki Rod definitively beat Gordon Ryan How would you do it Uh what's what's the definitive like Conclusion on on that joke does it work It's a it's a choke that you do when You're in a uh what's the opposite of a Dominant it's not submissive in a Non-dominant position of bottom of side Control yeah just embarrassing it's a Mission to get caught with really yeah But does it work it works on certain People For the listener he glassed over at Nicki Minaj it's embarrassing but it's Also what it's a way to frustrate the The opponent for sure yeah it's a new Part of the sport I feel like the Rotolos brought it back into fashion and Even if you don't get it because it's

One of those moves that's so Embarrassing at the first sign of danger The top guy abandoned ship and you can Basically retain guard by attempting a Very embarrassing City so the threat of Embarrassment yes everybody people pull Out very quick to avoid Suffering the consequence of things I Think some people underestimate how uh Good of a submission it is I mean like Once you're locked in there there's not Too many defenses for a buggy joke Are you is there an instructional on the Way from you on the j-rod actually my Little brother has one oh yeah for real You're actually legit have Oh wow That's awesome we'll check it out so I Mean there is I mean you're making a Joke out of it but it is a real like There's a system to it I mean yeah I Don't know if we call it a system it's a Good move I mean you take an opponent uh that was Just winning in a in a in a greatly Dominant position and then boom in that Same position they're pretty much They're losing you know it's uh it's an Interesting move what's the name of the Uh what's the name of it it's called The Buggy media like Jay Rodriguez okay the The bugapedia I thought there'd be Something like very Craig Jonesy about It okay awesome uh I know you don't want

To sort of reveal the secrets of what You're working on but in general dude What does it take to beat Gordon I guess Okay it would have to be some kind of a Joke I think any joint lock or anything Like that he's just gonna let it break And stay in the match so I don't even Think he'd tap from like a uh Arena Could choke I think I would have to put Him to sleep so um putting him asleep is How it went so Gordon is somebody who Really hates losing yeah like he won't Even happen though in the practice room I remember like I had a hold a couple Times in practice room and he was just Comfortable like working there I'm like I'm not really putting much on it I Think he just you know maybe because of Situations like that in practice he kind Of didn't respect my tohold's ability in In uh competition you've done that to me In the practice yes I have yeah yeah I'll give you a little give me a little Pup and then he let go It's a mess Okay Um is there some part of that you think Is necessary to be a champion is to like This almost unwillingness and Competition attempt I think it's Definitely something to be said for People that are just like uh you know Willing to go that extra mile or to take That damage to secure their their

Victory Um is there part of you that like would Hate to tap or hate the tap yeah I mean All of me hey what hate that yeah oh the Whole part of me uh isn't there a John Legend song like that all of you and all Of me very romantic yeah yeah we're Sticking on that theme okay I'm sorry uh Oh one of the things uh Gordon uh asked I forget how he put it because I think There's a lot of words that would need To be censored involved but he said ask Them Um how it feels to have a zero five Record against me with four submissions Combined I mean first of all I wasn't Sure he could count to five yeah that's An impressive thing Um oh and five I mean I will say one Thing nobody beats me four times I love you so Lex I did have a question I did have a question for you There was some controversy on your Twitter About a list of books yeah and I was Wondering Why Gordon's book wasn't featured Amongst that literature well it was only The first 30 books or like the first 20 books it Would of course be in uh something Interesting about Gordon he's the first Author that's written more books than He's read

Pretty good uh If you if you face someone beat them What like what's your take on what it Takes to be Gordon I mean you guys kind Of joke and they go pretty pretty hard Recently uh on each other but as a fan Of jiu jitsu I'm all in on this rivalry it's just fun To watch I mean first of all I don't Think I go really hard with him I think Gordon is he's pretty sensitive you know I mean he's looking for a large insult In a small insult and for me like Australians we just attack each other All day every day and for me like if I See someone that takes himself very Seriously that's like blood in the water That's funny to me to me if I can just Gently provoke and get a strong reaction That's hilarious like Aussies we will Just attack each other and the first Person that gets upset he kind of loses The exchange so I think that is very Very entertaining like if you were to Beat Gordon would the mental game off The map be part of it I think it would be a fact of a show but I mean I'm never going to come out too Crazy direct with him you know like I Don't I can't I find that like if you Get too upset online and you're going Crazy I find that I'd be embarrassed to Do that myself obviously each everyone's Different everyone has a different style

You know but like yeah I think mental The mental aspect would play a big Factor I mean Mainly because if I were to beat him I would send him a message every day Until I died yeah just to gently remind Him but I got the last one the last one It's all that matters So like once you beat him you're going To run for the rest of your life I mean run but look back yeah with Messages Right ride your horse into the sunset Okay uh oh by the way you've talked very Lightly you've talked [ __ ] very lightly Against Alexander volkanovsky's opponent Very lightly have you received death Threats or how's how are you still alive Like Gordon I would say people from Dagestan of take a joke very well you Know really Do they really no I like boards oh sorry I'm slow now let's do aggressive mode in My head now honestly I'm listening to You Islam was pretty cool I wanted to Stir It Up a bit you know because like I Felt like that was a massive fight and I Probably should have had more attention Than it was receiving so I wanted to Just gently Stir It Up a bit I feel like [ __ ] guys are in the same vein as catch Wrestlers very sensitive you know like Obviously there's only three people in The world that did catch wrestling [ __ ]

Maybe 10 to 15. so I figured we could Really provoke them with that sort of Jiu Jitsu [ __ ] stuff Islam took the Jokes very well the Russian fans not so Much are very serious there's not many Smiles in Russia you know Um they didn't take it as well I'm Trying to suppress the anger the rage is Building up the side slowly Um so you guys mentioned steroids I like That you bring that up after we talk About Russia for the record Smooth Segway there I did not condone The statements Um But I I would love to travel with you to Russia that would be a good time yeah if You might get killed with me now No I would be the like the first to to Turn to backstabbing like I got him All right Um are most of the top Grapplers on Steroids I mean it's hard to say you know some People look like [ __ ] and they're on Steroids some people look excellent and They're not upstairs it's so so hard to Tell but that seems to be the the General consensus that a lot of people Are steroids I'm always a little bit I Don't know I'll be honest I've never I've never seen anyone take steroids I've never taken steroids I don't even Know that's the right term to use or

Like trt any of that so I'm very careful Like to not let my naive Vitae like Um lead me to take conclusions but I do Feel a little bit weird about the Witch Hunt nature of it that some people a Little bit too eagerly claim that others Are on steroids just because they're Successful Um but at the same time it does seem That a lot of athletes will do whatever It takes to be successful yeah I mean if It's well it doesn't test you got to Assume most people are gonna do it and Especially now as more money comes into The sport you've got to assure more People are going to do it you know I Generally like do agcc and like just to Test it's actually encouraged what's Encouraged okay You get a pamphlet okay they don't test There's no testing they test to make Sure we're on steroids because obviously It's a big show for the UFC fight Plus In the future you don't want anyone Coming in out of shape very nice do you Think using steroids in that kind of Context and sports is wrong like Stepping stepping away if it's not Illegal I mean do you think ethically Speaking I like to assume everyone's on Stairs don't have to feel bad about Using stairs myself yeah Do you use them you use all of the Steroids I'm over 30 years TRD you know

That's the medical definition That's the medical okay Uh I'd like to meet your therapeutic use You know I therapeutic right Um like how do you just feel about it I Mean it is cheating for sure whether They test for it or not I think it is Cheating obviously some people are going To say oh [ __ ] everyone's on it uh I Should be able to get away with it makes It even playing field you know but it Kind of becomes Rush from your leg Because it's like if one guy's taking a Small amount and the other guy is taking A huge amount he's gonna reap huge Rewards in the short term probably be Dead pretty early but die a champion Mind you you know what I mean so it's Like I don't know what that one is yeah Yeah what do you think about that do you Think do you think it's worthy to take Health risks I think if you're just for The glory I think if you're 40 about to Die looking at a cabinet of gold medals For wrestling other men it's probably Not going to hit the same way on your Deathbatch you know Sorry in which direction Like is that a good thing or not no part You're probably gonna feel like oh [ __ ] I probably wasted a bit of Health on That you know you think so Isn't that isn't that like the glory of It

Like you said other men yeah yeah yeah Well I mean like you know maybe wrestle A woman as well What'd you do with with Gabby on Valentine's Day what did you take her we Filmed some new stuff for only fans for Only fans we never stopped working Says the love affair is also a work Affair okay I don't know I I there's Something too that made like like uh Olympic gold medalist accomplishing like The heights is sacrificing everything Just everything the first 20 30 years of Your life for this silly little piece of Metal I don't I think there's something Beautiful to that that's like conspires A lot a lot of people and that's like The height of the human condition in a Way like if you survive I'm just saying If you're in your deathbed early in life Before we all die all men die But not all men truly live how many of You how many years are you willing to Shave off for a gold medal that's a good Question how many how many are you Willing to shave off for a gold medal Well you're for silver medal for silver I mean for silver medal I'd shave a few Off I think two Silvers makes a gold Worth five years Five to ten maybe yeah Shove off the Bad years enhance the good Ones you know well I mean you've Sacrificed you guys sacrificed a lot a

Lot of your life you continue to Sacrifice oh you don't see the sacrifice It's fun I think training's fun being Adamant about it consistent gives you I Mean we I think we have a great routine Great ritual definitely enjoy the Process All right well do you guys know this is Bro Science or or I'm talking bro Scientists but do you know how long Steroids stay in your system Forever forever oh because hey once you Do it y'all want it yeah Just the knowledge yeah all right I Think it's I think it's different for Each steroid right I think some of them Last longer than others it depends if It's a urine you would think I would do A little research before this asking These questions why do you think most Athletes and coaches don't talk about Steroids Like why is it such a like a secret why Is it so embarrassing I think they Probably talk about it like amongst the Team and whatnot again I mean it's so It's going to be more shady if it's like A your your sport is tested or not we're Kind of in the Wild West in the in the Grappling world you know yeah but why Don't Grapplers talk about it Because it seems cheating I mean it's It's kind of insinuated as a bit of Cheating even if it's not like uh if

It's not tested I mean still you're You're taking a person that could you Know maybe has good Jiu Jitsu good Mechanics you putting them on the leg And they're subbing you with a heel hook Versus breaking your leg with a hook you Know something as subtle as that can Make you know big differences all right This is gonna make me sound dumb but is It possible that steroids are not a huge Help in grappling I think if you're bad at Jiu Jitsu and You do steroids you're going to continue To be bad at Jutsu but if you're great At gear I'm sorry if you're great at Grappling if you're great at grappling And then you also do gear it's going to Enhance what you're already you know Good at to make you much better but like How much is the enhancement I guess is The question how much is is muscle Valued right like if you're a question If you're doing gear and you're not Changing weight that much like maybe it Helps you a little bit but if you know You're gaining 50 60 pounds of pure Muscle and it's like that's a huge Enhancement that's another human this This muscle a small human yeah uh does Does muscle matter in Jiu Jitsu I guess Is the question is it possible that it Gets in the way I say muscle matters but Technique matters more I also think that It it'll help you develop technique as

Well because obviously you know Testosterone helps with recovery rate so If you're on gear you're able to train a Lot more now that being said if you're Not able to learn obviously it's not Going to help in that aspect but if You're somebody that knows how to learn And get good at Jiu Jitsu and then you Add gear on top of that you're able to Do significantly more sessions Throughout the week okay and by the way Gears there is steroids yeah I also think that you don't have to be As consistent uh in like your sleep and Your food and stuff if you're if you're On gear you have a little bit of leeway Um but I mean being consistent in your Diet and your sleep definitely would Would help you know the process since You use most steroids of any athlete I've ever met do you think steroids Jiu Jitsu oh man I think obviously it Helps recovery in your ability to train Well but I think some I've seen some Guys go on steroids and then suddenly They feel like the Incredible Hulk and Now in the training room they start to Rely more on strength than the Techniques they had and actually in some Respect Hinduism and make some gas more In competition because then they're Using more of the muscle they never used To have So you've implied that you're a natural

Athlete You said that you said that skeptically Is this something you do for for social Media to talk [ __ ] to Gordon to imply That he's not a natural athlete well I Only uh pretty much recently on social Media I had this rebuttal you know Saying that you know Gordon's on gear And I only said that because after after Our match in in the our most recent Match you know the ebi rules match he Accused me of greasing which is like Lubing up so I'm slippery during our Match so and you did not I did not I was Checked multiple times before and after Uh our grappling event and uh he still You know went out and accused me of this So I was like all right as opposed to Telling a lie I'll just tell the truth About you know your steroid use which it Shouldn't be that big of a deal in Retrospect because he kind of admitted It and whatnot previously Um so it's uh yeah I just kind of felt Like I had to rebuttal and I I didn't do It immediately because I was like all Right I know I have this podcast planned So I'll wait to do it on you know my Friend uh Mark Bell's podcast you know Be a little more more get a little bit More exposure on it and uh yeah I knew He was gonna bite the babe I didn't Think it was gonna you know bite the Baby that hard I I know he's a little

Stressed out about about the comment but You know and that was the origin of you Guys going back and forth on well it Wasn't so much back and forth it was Just I went forth and then he kept going Back back like I remember one of one of My guys DM me and they were like Gordon's made like 68 Instagram stories And 67 of them were all about you I was Like all right well I'm in his head for Sure got us a few followers we Appreciate it we did we did get Followers he even shouted out or RB team Wipeout program so thank you yeah Uh okay uh speaking of which uh uh What's the B Team how's it run And why is it called the B Team Well I mean Craig was there a team For me bees for best okay best all right What does B stand for for you what does It represent what is the ideal like the You know uh Miyamoto Musashi Philosophical Foundation of B Team aim Low and achieve If the bar is set low you can't help but Win okay that's Nikki's philosophy with Women as well said the bar incredibly Low overachieved so what what is the B Team how do you guys run it like what uh Yeah I mean can you just talk about the School how you found it what what what What is it uh what's it like I mean Pretty much just a regular uh Jiu-Jitsu Gym we started a as sort of a prose only

Purple bone above Um team and we have me Nikki Rod Nikki Ryan Ethan Damien Um as coaches am I missing someone Impeccable memory yeah and we got JB Coming on to teach wipeouts but just Your stock standard uh Jiu Jitsu team we Focus on uh more we lean heavily towards The professional athletes side of things We have a lot of uh high level guys in There yeah class structure regular Instruction and positional aspiring open Rounds but we sort of took a a heavy Slant on marketing side of things we Really try to blow up the YouTube Channel Um obviously we sell a lot of clothing Merchandise and stuff so yeah we just Sort of took a modern approach to a Standard Jiu Jitsu gym because I mean Jiu-Jitsu gyms are full of some of the Most boring human beings on Earth so we Try to hide long words guys young strong Highlight the other side of things you Know keep it pretty light-hearted it can Be fun yeah the Jiu-Jitsu can be fun I Guess that it could be cool too you know It's not just full of steroided up Autistic people you know question from Reddit Quote need to hear some of the stories About drop-ins that led to the making of The gem of a video the do's and don'ts Of training a B Team any any fun stories

And he wants to stand out do you guys Remember any police involved ever we had A guy coming back to kick him out he was Stalking two of the members uh yeah well I mean that's just crazy people you know Like I portray a pretty insane image Online and I guess I am that a lot of The time but at training try to keep it While training around training I'm Insulting everyone but while training I Try to keep it pretty serious but Obviously the image of betray Lou is in Some of the the crazier members I mean Like the thing is about the the Jimmy Guys run is is really professional it's Like friendly it's like the Light-hearted joking is there obviously The you know like [ __ ] talk and all that Kind of stuff but like it's it's a Pretty safe environment yes but the Public persona Might attract some some Maniacs yeah I Want to say which places I'm trying to But it's obviously some places you walk Into the room and it's very very serious Yeah there's no Smiles around obviously It's probably average training room in Russia but no Smiles very serious Environment you know what I mean and uh I definitely don't like that I don't Want to show up to training and be Walking on eggshells not no other Coaches moods like that day I want to go And have a good time

Keep it light-hearted what was in the Video what are the do's and don'ts Because like the address is public like Anyone can show up anyone can show up Yeah what would the do's and don'ts does Anyone challenge you like to fight No yeah no yeah I mean probably from Other gyms in town they're probably That's probably coming down the line but Um do's and don'ts I'm I'm all in on That I'm I'm I would be excited as a fan To just watch I love the drama Not the drama no no well a little drama A little Drop of Poison is good Um but ultimately it's the the best Grapplers in the world kind of um going At it yeah as fun Because I may maybe I'm wrong but I Think there is an underlying deep Camaraderie at the end of the day when You're like at the top of the world yeah And you're like in the same town what Could possibly go wrong it's like a Shitty Western but like an epic Western Where like Clint Eastwood like the good The bad and ugly Of course I love it I'm I'm here just Eating popcorn like that staring in the Pot I'm not staying in the box That one for sure yeah I mean what must We go wrong if you're the world's best Grappler hates you and you're gently Provoking and behind the scenes every

Day well I mean for sure in Texas and You've stolen his brother held him for Ransom It is like a story of a shitty Western I Think you know a lot of weight belts to Train with you what's it like to open it Up to a bigger audience uh we haven't Opened it up yet but it'll be Interesting to see I mean I I feel like Your higher belts they really understand What the training room is you know what I mean wipeouts early they're trying to Find their place in the gym could be Kind of awkward and stuff in that Environment so I think obviously those White belts coming in will change the Dynamic but the white belts will have a Separate white belt classes obviously For them because giving it such a high Level gym it be tough a beginner to be Able to enter the more advanced classes Who obviously we're teaching more Advanced Techniques so yeah we've Separated a y belt program I believe 6 P.m on better Friday yeah maybe we'll Have a Saturday one as well but it'll be Interesting to see how it goes we're Trying to do things different you know Like trying to do your traditional Jiu-Jitsu gyms obviously you're not Going to teach beginners wrestling at All we're trying to split it at least 33 Top game bottom game and wrestling so at Least create more well-rounded athletes

From day one whereas I feel like most Traditional Jiu Jitsu gyms might have no Gee once a week that'll touch wrestling Very IBG Jeff heavy techniques but again The Sports changing for sure just to Take that on how does a beginner get Good at Jiu Jitsu like given that you're Starting this way but what's your Philosophy on that obviously you buy all Of my instructionals yeah at full price Yeah not during a sale okay that would Go a long way for those of you who are Russians I'll give you I'll send you Instructions for all the forms so you Know how to how to steal it yeah sure I Bought them all so I'll just send it to You we do I mean we do have the Maca Chev 50 discount code you know yeah Offering discounts to help him out for The rematch I got the nice Picture Uh well I got 100 discount for you if You need it but that said you're Instructional are both hilarious and Brilliant and it's one of the most Respective instructionals oh thank you With incredibly great names yeah it Probably loses me sales honestly due to Removing the seriousness I think it's Gonna kind of suck it's gonna be some Funny Um gimmicky thing oh I mean some people Don't even know if it's a real product That's a big hurdle I have to over

Conversation they see it and they're Like is that a real thing that's a Problem but how does the Wipeout get Good I think they just I mean just have To show up you just have to put in the Effort uh try to focus on using Techniques and training rather than just Fighting to the death you know Although that is entertaining for us to Watch to fight to the death yeah but What are the techniques you should focus On like what's the process what does it Mean to show up like how much drawing All that kind of stuff like what it well If you were to optimize the first six Months of a of a beginner there's a lot Of people who listen to this and haven't Tried they've been curious I have a lot Of friends who haven't who are like You're just too curious they're Constantly looking for an excuse to Start I think it's just got to be as Simple as possible you know like we Shouldn't be teaching more advanced Movements I mean obviously in the grand Schema thinks this highly Advanced Techniques and then they're slightly Advanced and I think trying to teach Those guys real specific positions even Like real specific types of God it's Just beyond them I think the best way to Learn is through problem solving and I Think if you show the technique before They've discovered that problem

The learning is sort of held back so I Like the idea of using Kids style games To show them a problem and then use the Techniques to fix the problems they've Just discovered I think that's the best Way to learn can you give an example of A problem to show them before you give Them the techniques like what are we Talking about all right so say you Wanted to teach uh posture in wrestling You could create a game where one guy The game might be get to a leg or get to Two legs control the leg like super Simple but the rules the constraint Would be one guy is forced to keep Upright posture and one guy is forced Will not force but he's allowed to keep A bent at the hips lower posture and Obviously within the that constraint the Guy with the better posture is going to Have more success he's gonna have a Better posture to secure a leg or secure Both legs and therefore you've Demonstrated the flaws of bad posture Without having to explain it to him Before they really tested that out okay And then the result of that you would Realize that the the bent over posture Is better yeah you have that aha moment Rather than just being having it spoken To you Uh you wrote Craig I'm a big fan of Constraint based learning I guess was

Just what you're talking about I love Presenting beginners with a problem Before the solution like here attempt to Hold side control with no with no cues On how then I see how the guy Got out and addressed issue by issue Cross face and hip control and so on Okay so what are some other examples Like side control yeah that would be Excellent one side control like teacher Like obviously we say oh you secure a Crossfire so they can't turn into you Much easier to have them try to hold Someone down without explaining what a Cross face is and then use that Technique to address the problem they've Just encountered so I think you could do That with a lot of areas of Jiu Jitsu Like even more advanced say 50 50. Obviously a mirrored position where you Both have access to each other's heels Most people are still out of that Position and keep their feet crossed I Think a great constraint for both of Them you can't cross your feet now you Have to learn how to uh slip the heel Hook when they expose it and how to Safely re-attack of your own so the Constraint is you can't be too defensive In that position and I think the learn The rate of learning increases why do You think the rate of learning increases Like why do you think that works because You can counter more problems say in

That situation they're going to get you Healed a lot more in whatever period of Time you allocate the drill for than if The legs across I don't think the hard Part splitting the legs to get to the Submission I think the hard part Practicing control while they're trying To slip it out of later stage and then Obviously trying to slip your heel when You're in more danger also makes you More comfortable in that bad position if You're used to doing it with open legs Yeah I think that probably that style of Teaching forces people to focus on Because it's so easy to fall into Focusing on like memorizing a particular Details of a technique without thinking Like where the hell does this even work And if you don't have that you could get To focus on like from like as cliche as It sounds from first principles like why The hell How the hell do I get out of this like Why does this even work why does Wrestling work why do you have a bent Over posture you get those like start to Ask those kinds of questions Which is kind of interesting because It's not obvious to me that bent over Postures is the right posture for jiu Jitsu right I'm confused actually about that I don't Know about the correct posture yeah for Jiu jitsu like what's the right answer

I think Ben overpost is still good for Jiu jitsu even with the Judo and all That like why are so many Jiu-Jitsu People like at a high level the posture Is higher up Well I think the I think wrestling Posture is just a bit too low because It's not necessary right if wrestlers Are like low enough to the ground where Your hands can touch the mat uh but in Jiu Jitsu you know it's a it's kind of a Mix between like wrestling and like uh Judo or or Greco-Roman wrestling so Um I think it's just a bit more more Relaxed and it's it's bent over but it's Not upright and it's also not super low You know a bit more room for attitude Because obviously the uh Jiu Jitsu guy Shot isn't going to be as athletic as Quick as a wrestlers especially wrestle With shoes so it actually comes down to The fact that Jiu Jitsu people just on Average even at the top level are not Good at shooting I think so yeah I think obviously I mean All the wrestlers in American stuff They're starting super early super young You know what I mean they're they've by The time they get to the same age we are Really uh announceable and stuff they've Spent much longer doing the actual sport And the average Jujitsu and then there's Another level of wrestling of course With the

Of the Soviet block that's just Unachievable for your car An Australian rugby yeah a former rugby Player rugby is that kind of like American football but much less money is That what that is much less money much Tougher I would say but yeah who knew That The Cure To the dagestani wrestling Were the Aussies with the Aussies uh Okay let's go there The uh your your friend your training Partner Alexander vulcanowski you helped Him prepare for the Islam marketev Versus vulcanovski fight who do you Think first of all won that fight That's a tricky one how is that the Tricky question I will say when uh when I was a [ __ ] talk you've been doing how Is that When I was in the corner going into the Fifth I personally believed live that uh Vulcanovsky probably needed a a finish To take the victory but you have to Think that way right in general or You're like legitimately it's a great Area because the judging who knows plus I was like wait we're in Australia Where's this bias you know we've got Some Australian judges here I was really Hoping we give it a bias yeah Unfortunately not hopefully they lose Their jobs but Again yeah it was it was a close one I

Think sometimes you're blinded in the Moment because again everyone counted Vulcanovski out the crowds behind him so Everything he does is going to get a Huge cheer your bias towards the smaller Guy you buy us towards the underdog so You sort of whatever the underdog does Has a bigger impact in your mind and Sometimes they can bias as the fight Goes along but yeah super super close Fight I got I would really love them to Have a rematch uh but obviously that's Going to hold up both divisions so I Don't know if they'll be able to do it Do you think they'll do a rematch soon I Mean that wasn't that was an epic fight I was listening to the fake companion During they all thought uh so they Biased strongly the the opinion round Two was the the tricky one yeah round Two is the tricky one anyway I'd love to See that like uh running back and do Three actually there's an epic fight uh What was the brief conversation you had With Islam marketev and his team I Didn't know how we take the joke because Obviously khabib tried to Flying Eagle Kick Dylan Dennis in the face so I Wasn't sure how my humor would go yeah But I mean Dylan must have said some Worse things to me I was just playing Around I mean you can't really take Anything I say serious yeah come across Like an idiot but so what he was coming

Up to me afterwards I was like oh I Don't know what he's gonna say and again Maybe he would have been more upset if He had lost but he had just received the Judge's decision yeah but he came up I Went to check he's saying he gave me a Big hug and then pretended to throw me And then I thought the interaction was Over and then he circled back so that's Why I was so awkward I was like oh he's Coming back he wants to say he wants he Wants something else but he just said Why didn't you teach your boy how to Escape the body triangle Oh wow interesting what did you say to That I said well I mean obviously you've Got to learn how to finish a real naked Choke is that what you said Uh and I was laughing but then I should Have sat they were like get out of here Before the Aussie crowd attacks here you Know what do you think about the body Triangle position that we're in it Seemed like for the first time he was Almost like walk was yeah it did Dominant in that position which is kind Of weird I mean damage is meant to Trump Control MMA judging damage is the number one do You think the the judges saw that who What do they score that as I think they All scored four towards Islam yeah three And five uh two of the judges scored Towards Volks one of the judges scored

Three for Islam one it was 49 46 uh for One of them and the other ones were 48.47 I think they're Again the confusing round was around so I don't think anyone scored the body Triangle round for Volks which I wish They had Uh volkanovski was and is still arguably Palm for upon greatest fighter in the World how long have you known him I Don't know the first one I met him Before he was in the UFC when I used to Live in Melbourne he came down to train It absolute yeah and then we really Connected on Ultimate Fighter he one of His guys who's going to bring Tottenham A fighter Brad rodel pulled out last Second so he called me when I was in Puerto Rico and he's like do you want to Coach on tough for five weeks and like I Said Puerto Rico was Apocalypse Now I Was like yeah get me out of here so I Took jumped on that opportunity and we Were in Vegas five weeks together Because he was meant to fight Ortega and Then he got hit with covert real bad Uh got stuck in I think he was in Hospital for maybe one to two weeks and Then before he flew back to Australia They were like all right maybe we just Do you guys as The Ultimate Fighter Coaches so I jumped on board with that And that's really when we've become Close yeah obviously I was useful in the

Ortega fight help him get out of Submissions He fought then Korean Zombie Max Holloway I basically just held the Bucket at that point in the corner a Couple striking uh fights and then again Yeah we had to tackle the Islam problem So I did spend five to six weeks down There preparing for that how did you uh Tackle the Islam problem How do I attack was you somebody who Barely knows anything about wrestling Having to because it doesn't take much You know yeah especially wrestling Wrestling uh did the beard help or like What like in all seriousness what were Some of the key ideas you that you Worked on With vulcanovski to prepare for it I had The help of Frank Hickman Hickman was Down there too one of the Hickman Brothers uh wrestling coach so we were Sort of like problem solving and I mean Basically we were confident in Volks uh Fence wrestling his cage work he's super Good on the catch super like uh under Respected in that position and we knew That if you were able to take the Scrambles to the cage he would be Effective against Islam because again Islam is background of [ __ ] of Freestyle Wrestling but I mean honestly He's probably got the same experience on The cages folks obviously some of those

Uh wrestling skills would translate very Well to the cage but the cage is still Somewhat of a gray area an equalizer Invokes again incredible ability to Stand up incredible defense on the cage Which you saw we worked on strategies to Get up and a ton of submission defense Islam loves kimura's obviously reenacted From the back arm bars those are sort of And Armstrong dominant submissions but Again the guys he submitted Not grapples Apart from Charles Oliveira and again Charles Oliveira was basically knocked Out at that point so I was still Impressed if he submitted him but again I always told people this they thought It was crazy I was like Charles Oliveira Versus Islam in a grappling match Oliveira is going to win that match Like submission grappling submission Grappling yeah so if you were grappling Skill set I think Oliveira is a more Dangerous Grappler so we didn't even Come into it thinking Islam was this Unstoppable Boogeyman that people make Him out to be So we approached it from that just focus On the techniques Ability to get back up using Turtle to Get back up using Turtle to scoot to the Cage to get back up and hand fighting From there keeping it pretty safe but What makes Volks so special I think is

His gas tank gas tank and his willpower He's just unbreakable the dagestani guys Khabib Islam they are good at Submissions but okay they break guys Mentally and they fatigue him and then They take the submission that's offered Oliveira is a guy that can jump on Submissions and have an incredible Technical ability to finish those Submissions whether you're fresh or You're tired and then you combine that With falconowski who incredible Willpower never gets tired you're never Going to break him and as you saw he Only attempted one submission the whole Fire is that learned is that trained or Are you just born with that that mental Toughness it's a good question I mean He's like an anomaly like the entire Fight Camp not nervous at all supremely Confident the whole fight week Completely confident he just has an Attitude like oh everyone cast me out We'll see you know what I mean Islam He's like let's see no doubt no doubt at All super relaxed up until about five Minutes before and then he starts Stamping himself up he's like you are Not taking this belt from my family gets Into that sort of mindset he actually Says that out loud You can't teach that survival he didn't Even take a fight you know Have you guys ever been like pushed to

The Limit like that or broken in a Grappling match Uh I'll do it in practice like I'll push Myself to like I don't think it might Pass out or die or something like as far As like uh how tired you get you know Because like in a match Um they try not to ever get close to That anymore yeah you try to because you Know it's important to understand uh Where you're exhausted exhaustion point Is Um but yeah if you have to push to that Limit a match you probably do doing Something wrong you know like if you Like you see in matches where guys Sprint the last like minute they're Trying to win the match and last minute And it's like you definitely had some Mistakes leading up to that if you have To you know gonna go boss the wall Okay but has there been other times in Competition especially like early on Because you're like you wrestled pretty Hard and wrestling is pretty exhausting Like not wrestling but you know Wrestling style kind of thing going Against the best people in the world Yeah I mean I definitely again I think I Think in practice it's important to uh Do that hard work that where competition Is is much easier you know I think if You if you Redline in practice and you Really push the like death's door uh

Then once you're in competition and You're working with you know you're Being fresh in a compliments it's much Better have you ever been to that thing Where Dan Gable talks about always Wanting to be to a place where you can't Get off the mat Like you work so hard in the training Room you can't get off the mat I think He says he's failed at that in his Career he was always able to at least Crawl off the mat Yeah I definitely never like actually Died on the map I felt like I felt like I was gonna die you know sure sure uh What about you do quit all the time I Get a lot cramp I'm like you know what You got me mad let's do this against Tomorrow Dude if I'm asking Craig for a role he's In the bathroom somewhere haha I do you do you see the value of pushing Yourself like to that place where you're Knocking on death stories yeah but Within safety you know because obviously The most uh serious injuries occur when You're tired over training and stuff Like that so I think like taking a page Out of what those MMA fighters do Especially Volks with his training like He's not necessarily pushing crazy in Each round but he's doing extra Conditioning assault bike stuff crazy Workouts outside

And he does do some crazy training Workouts but all safe very safe though When he's redlining like that in the Training room it's a very controlled Safe setting I think to do that in Jiu Jitsu against some of these lunatics out There that are trying to kill you Especially when you have a name can be Dangerous so your approach is just as Don't warm up and don't try too hard No sir for safety no for safety yeah Yeah longevity you know and talk [ __ ] to About Russians I got it I got it I hear You oh you mentioned uh cage work what What what's interesting to you that You've learned overall this time about Cage work what's like what's interesting About the Dynamics of that are you Talking about both like the control In the dominant position but also Getting up from the bottom while you're Against the cage all of that the added Dimension of that cage that wool being There changes a lot of stuff right so Obviously in some ways it's a much lower Impact Wrestling style because he can't Be throwed on you can shoot the cage is Going to block their feet you're going To be able to chase down their hips it's Just a completely different fight and Again because of Islam's Judo skills That upper body controls you see he's Able to use against the cash like the Inside trips uh sort of the YouTube

Artist style all right Goshi throws so Obviously those skills do translate but Yeah I think the cage is a great Equalizer for a lot of things like Athleticism and stuff it takes away a Huge speed Advantage aspect of the fire So he's really good at staying up what Is is there I assume he learned all that From you and your instructional just Stand up I mean we were so confident I Was like you know what why don't we put This thing out a month before the fun Yeah maybe the illegal download hasn't Made its way to Russia yet yeah but it Was there for him can you can you Explain to me what's in the Instructional just stand up like what What are what are the ideas what do you I mean the old school way to stand up People to talk about the technical get Up you know the old Gracie put the hand But I mean that's that doesn't work it Hasn't worked for 20 years you know if You look at everyone that gets up in MMA They're using Turtle to get up they're Using wrestling together you know what I Mean yeah which is uh counter to what Pure Jiu Jitsu says they say don't Expose the back don't ever expose your Back I think Jiu Jitsu is a terrible way To get back to the feet because if you Were to retain guard and go half got a Close guard super hard positions to get Up you're basically putting yourself in

A leg tuck for wrestling so I think you Need to borrow from wrestling to learn How to get up in an MMA fighter so Basically how to safely expose your own Back while I'm not allowing them to get Hooks and use that to get back up or at Least not allow them to get two hooks And that applies for MMA especially for MMA especially because obviously uh Striking is a factor but if they are Striking they don't have locked hands Around your body means you are able to Move you are able to make an attempt to Get back up they have to choose between Control submission or strikes uh post From Reddit why does Craig Jones push so Hard for a bottom is bad jiu jitsu what Is so bad about playing bottom guards Such as half guard or Delhi those are The two options no one likes the bottom Why would I want to get up It's the question for all of you is is The bottom a bad place to be I mean the Bottom is bad if you don't want that gun To help you that's the way I look at it You know that's that's that sounds like Something a cowboy would say but I don't Know if there's much meaning I think the Point of Jiu Jitsu is both are dangerous Being on bottom and on top I think the Longer the match is probably the Favorites the top guy more just because Every movement the bottom guy makes is Probably carrying your your weight

Carrying that gravity on top of you so I Think it's a bit more efficient uh Passing from the top as opposed to Sweeping from bottom Bottom's reactive Top is active the top player decides how To engage how to approach the god that Can use angles they can use footwork That can throw people uh throw the legs By so it's an active position Bottom's Reactive reactive you're gonna get Fatigued yeah I think I think it's very Difficult to gas somebody out while Playing guard but I think it's very easy To gas somebody out uh when attempting To pass it well you guys are talking About guessing people out but is there Are more dangers from the bottom like in Terms of submissions and all that kind Of stuff or no I'm back and forth Because I'm a top I'm a top player but I Understand the value of being on bottom Like when I do play guard the bottom I Feel like this the submissions come much Easier uh and when I'm on top they come Also pretty easy but uh maybe I just Take a different route It's up on the streets bought them in The shades What was the hardest part of the Training for the the training camp for Volcanowski like you're just Experiencing world-class MMA fighters Training and given your approach of uh To jiu jitsu of not trying to harden no

Matter what yeah I mean from my Perspective there's a lot of pressure For that you know like that's a that's That's a lot of pressure for me to go in And think that I could possibly figure Out a way to help this guy address this Guy that's basically never been beaten I Think he got knocked out once but Basically not really even been put in Bad positions you know what I mean That's a lot of pressure on me Especially because volcano see such a Great guy yeah jiu jitsu's differ you Know like you coach a guy who loses he Has time to tap but he never make it Gets severely hurt yeah there's a lot More weight and what you need to do as a Coach you have a greater sense of Responsibility to the health and Well-being you know like obviously I Know Fox kids I know his wife you know What I mean they're putting faith in you To not just win the fight but keep this Man safe you know so from my perspective A hell of a lot more Russia uh coaching Him as an MMA fighter it's almost like The psychological aspect of like um Of doing the best you can for him Exactly yep yep what was uh what was the Hardest about the actual training was it The technical aspect of trying to figure Out the puzzle of Islam or was it like Being a good training partner in the in The in the like in figuring out how the

Grappling would work basically playing Your best impression of microchip were You trying to actually impersonate him Like not not just uh visually but like In stock yeah definitely definitely Visually you're not as good looking but Go ahead a little taller but uh no in Terms of the training yeah I mean Islam's known as incredibly strong glass Obviously I'm heavier than Islam so Theoretically I should be able to Replicate that strength difference and Then in terms of grappling targeting Those submissions that Islam does like Focusing on those in the training room Focusing on the way he holds half God And really [ __ ] in the grappling sense Trying to replicate him on the ground And then yeah I wrestled with him on the Wall a ton trying to replicate obviously It's the best one ability a lot of the Stuff he does on the wall body lock Heavy inside trip Uchimatas and just constantly uh put in The work on Volks you know what I mean Like constantly chaining attacks against Him Really replicate as he's trying to get Up and escape and all that kind of stuff So this submissions like both Judo and Submissions just attacking attack Exactly there's only so much you can do Really because obviously he's been I Think he's been fighting a long time so

It's like you're trying to polish what He already is good at you can't just Completely create an entirely new game For him in the space of six weeks so You're trying to take what he's already Effective at add to it and luckily a lot Of the stuff he's already very good at Was easy to add to for the for the fight Question from Reddit I'm very curious Why other MMA fighters don't employ high Profile Grapplers from B team and New Wave to improve their grappling that's From the subreddit uh by now it's clear That they are levels above almost Everyone in MMA simply because Fighters There don't specialize in grappling but It doesn't seem like Fighters even Champions get training Partners from the Most successful teams why is that the Case from your experience Why uh doesn't could be call you You might now Um Put in a good word for me Oh oh I will yeah That's right he takes a joke pretty well Yeah Um no no you'll be walking with open Arms I think your average statistic coach MMA Fighters have bad experience with Jiu-jitsu guys Jiu-Jitsu doesn't have a Massive place to MMA obviously rounds Stand-ups it's hard hard to submit

People your average Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Black Belt doesn't know anything about Holding a guy down doesn't know anything About how to stand up sure so I think if You over overly utilize that juicy guy That hasn't had experience in more Modern nogi or training MMA fighters Previously it's going to be a complete Waste of time to them I think they're Smart enough to realize that do you have Uh and do you guys do you have interest In MMA at all just not even like Well certainly just competing yourself But like just understanding the puzzle Of MMA yeah I mean I've been a fan of Mixed martial arts you know for a very Long time before I I trained jits uh Personally I personally I'd much rather Coach than fight but I mean I'd fight Somebody for you know a good check and I Get to pick the opponent and have a Proper Kev Okay I can think of a good opinion yeah which Dude who's that Uh all right Who do you think is the greatest MMA Fighter of all time Craig let's start with you just as a fan Of the sport as somebody's been deep in It I mean from my perspective after that Performance I'm gonna say volcanovski Because he was able to decisively Outstrike Max Holloway one of the

Greatest Strikers in the sport and he Was able to hang with the wrestling of Islam macachev and in terms of Ortega Was able to survive Ortega who has some Of the most dangerous emissions in Jiu Jitsu so I think in my opinion Technically he's the best So even though even though he Technically lost he's still he still has A crown I I believe in himself given the Size difference given he's moving up in White yeah I think all those factors Really the underdog everything the Pressure Did you think he would be able to hang In any of the wrestling exchanges with Islam No no no I was really surprised That's why my eyes like It's kind of funny like winning at the End of the day I feel like judges Influence that although I did think Australian judges would Rob the other Way but yeah I was assuming they kind of Somebody paid somebody and not enough Maybe but uh but in general I just Thought he won sort of in the eyes of What martial arts stands for like Sort of going to the fire and survive And and Thrive and finish the last round Strong which is kind of was like Spiritually is what a victory is so I Wish we kept going like one more round Yeah exactly that kind of thing Um well what about you what do you think

Like who are the fighters you admire Like who do you think is the greatest of All time I think the fighter I paid most Attention to was Jon Jones Um you know he has a great ability just To mix the the high level striking high Level grappling Um although his you know Jiu Jitsu by Itself isn't you know it probably isn't Like you know super high level but his Ability to mix everything together I Would say he's he's the best And he's a fellow you know heavier guy Heavyweight now so it's it's nice to see You know how those guys move at that Weight And it fellow natural athlete See what I did there all right uh what About what about you Nikki yeah if I had To pick a goat I would probably have to Say khabib just because he was he was Undefeated and uh he had a very you know High finishing rate you know very few of His fights actually went to a decision Um so he just overall he dominated Almost every single opponent he won Against the Dominus uh I mean we've been Joking about it but uh Craig what do you Think makes the dagistani fighter so Good like from this small region of the World so much dominance has come I mean Obviously the the amount of Freestyle Wrestling champions from that region Before he puts their wrestling above and

Beyond the best Um in all of MMA and obviously a lot of Even in the Olympics a lot of Champions Out of there right so I think that skill Set combines with them adding effective Pin controls on the ground and Jiu Jitsu Submissions but I mean again I think It's that hard training those guys like Khabib would maintain that pressure Throughout the entire fire and break Guys down their ability to fatigue guys To a breaking point I think it's Something they do best I wonder what What that is is that technique what is That what is it about their upbringing Because is that just that part of the World or will the city of Brothers what For the other Freestyle Wrestling side To all the Mixed Martial Arts people Like it must be part of the The culture also they must be doing Something I don't think I've never I haven't seen A convincing explanation of why yet Of what's specific about their training What's specific about their culture that Creates that Okay what do you think about like the The flip side do you admire somebody Like uh Conor McGregor who It knows how to create a spectacle you Craig who likes spectacles spectacles Yeah I mean I really admire early Conor McGregor because I found him absolutely

Hilarious you know like I felt like that Was Peak banter I feel like he just took The American World by storm Aussies British Irish kiwis I believe we have a Way better level of banter and attacking Each other and it's almost too easy to Pick on Americans to take themselves Very seriously I mean I could believe in Other parts of the world too the Far East of Europe you know but that's That's a tricky thing with Connor I Think he was I feel like you could have Gotten in the same kind of trouble Because the Russians really took Everything very seriously they weren't Joking around yeah that's that's the Problem it's like it's it's it's a bit Of a I mean some things he definitely Takes too far you know but I felt like Early on he had the right balance where He wouldn't really cross the line but he Would do he would do enough he just took It to another level obviously later in His career But I think early on a bit of innocent Better he gets a lot of eyes on the Sport though it's probably by far the Most popular combat athlete of all time Because of that yeah I feel like you Have to cross the line I don't think Enough people appreciate like the values He's brought by crossing the line he's Making a sacrifice crossing the line That's going to affect him for the rest

Of his life you know I see I don't think so I think you can Always walk back because I think unlike People might disagree with this I well yeah I I thought he always Radiated a respect For the opponent like afterwards and Underneath it it felt like the same way You do it when I hear you [ __ ] talking I Don't see a person who really means it I see a person who's having fun with it I always saw Conor McGregor the same way I don't know and but people took it like Extremely seriously but I I saw the Respect like the common respect the Martial artists have for each other that Felt like it was always there if you Don't like that individual you're gonna Perceive yeah what they say more uh Negatively than if you obviously were so Like I feel like if you like someone You're gonna never think they really Cross the line that's true so you're Saying I like you that's what I Perceived your [ __ ] in a positive Life is there are there people that hate You It's a good place to be keep your Enemies close all right uh what do you Think is the most important muscle for Digestive biceps no uh I think a strong I think a strong back I think back one Course second And then biceps okay biceps cool do you

Legitimately think like weightlifting Helps Jujitsu it's kind of the Discussion on the steroids is like The muscle mass and strength and power And explosiveness all that I think Sometimes when we're at that upper Echelon of competition there's there's Only there's like little minute battles That you have to win and if you're if You're relatively close in technique Then a lot of times a stronger opponent Pulls it out But it could be also just a limitation Right you hold position too long uh what About for hobbyists do you recommend Weightlifting like when you see people In the gym I always recommend Weightlifting I I almost see muscle as The body's armor right the more armor You have the more damage you can kind of Take and you know maybe recovery is a Little bit better Um and I've always seen weightlifting as A means to uh stick to my routine like If there's no point in lifting if you're Not eating right and you're not sleeping Right so if you kind of put it all Together then it's it's beneficial What about you guys you go do you go to The gym I go to the gym yeah Leave it on the gym it's an elliptical And that butt machine or uh yeah I focus On the glutes heavily all right Uh what about like what about injury

Prevention so on um how do you train to Minimize the risk of injury you guys Have all been pretty beat up you've Gotten a major injury with the ACL yeah Uh so how do you train to minimize Injury probably another I gotta ask yeah I definitely can you talk through your Injury like what happened yeah so uh About one week prior to uh this last 80cc I was I was wrestling with uh this Guy named Kenta who's also competing and Uh I went to go lift him from like a Rear body lock and he hooked the outside Of my leg and we just felt something pop You know he felt a shift with his with His leg and uh When it first happened it hurt for like The first 30 seconds and then I honestly Debated I was like maybe it was just you Know some freak thing I was like I Literally thought about continuing the Session uh then the next day I woke up And it was like super sore I was you Know limping around couldn't couldn't do A full squat Um so it pretty much killed all of my Training for the entire week leading up To the event so I couldn't train or Anything uh messed up the cut obviously There's there's added nerves with that Too you know when you're not in the gym Every day leading up to the competition Uh I went out there I wasn't really able To pull guard because I couldn't get you

Know full heal the butt connection which Is inevitable with playing guard and I Was very uh hesitant to shoot as well so I came out with the idea of just trying To use hand fighting to to Tire uh my First opponent out and then mainly look To get to underhooks or over Hooks and Do mostly upper body wrestling in the Beginning of the match I you know Successfully got to an underhook I got To rear body lock he tried to roll and I Ended up in top position and side Control but it was during the no points Period and then as the match went on uh I gassed out and eventually he ended up Taking me down and then scoring with uh With two hooks on the back so what's the Injury yeah so I got an MRI actually After the event I didn't if you waited Wait wait you waited until after the Event yeah I waited until after I was Like knowledge or ignorance is bliss Yeah exactly I was like I honestly I Don't even want to know what's wrong I Was like I just go out there compete um You know I knew it was like the the Biggest event Um to date and uh I really wanted to do It think about not doing it uh it Definitely was a thought in my head Especially that that uh the day after You know it's always the worst day Whenever you have like a serious Injuries the day after and I was like

Man I really can't do a full Squad I was Like I don't even know how I'm gonna be Able to do this uh it got a bit better Over as the uh the week went on Um but I was like man I I have to go out There and compete I was like I'm it'll Always be in the back of my mind like What if if I ended up pulling out what Did you think about this hole I thought It was just being a [ __ ] yeah Just slap him around just yell at him I Didn't think we pressured you we just Saw you make your own decision right We're just like it's a tricky thing to Do like with a heavily like like a Serious injury like this we didn't know That was the thing we didn't know Honestly initially I thought it was I Tore my lateral meniscus Um but that ended up not being the case It ended up being a full ACL tear I was Actually super surprised when I got the MRI results Um so yeah we didn't know how bad it Actually was What do you think about that situation I Think uh Nikki's a tough kid and uh I Mean when you're so close to that Competition you know there's not many You don't get many opportunities like That to compete in front of you know 15 000 people it's like you know props to You for pushing through it and getting It and man he had a close match for one

Of the best Grapplers in his weight Classes like you know a few adjustments Here and there especially uh you know if He was able to train previously leading Up to that match I think he pulls it up So some of the things he mentioned is Nerves so there's extra nerves just Because you're underprepared yeah I mean You know feeling underprepared you want To go into a competition with you know The confidence I did everything that I Could leading up to this event I trained As much as I could and then when an Injury prevents that you start to doubt Yourself more how do you guys think About injury how do you train you know Training with the best in the world Training to be the best in the world and Avoiding injury As you've gotten you tour your bicep Yeah yeah I tore bicep yeah Dude honestly I I was I was a body I was Bodybuilding you know for like seven Years and no lie I did I trained biceps Like most days like almost that almost Every day in those seven years pretty Much I injured my I injured myself That's so Jersey man anything else or Just the bosses just I mean no Yeah injured the bicep Um pretty much I the day before a Wrestling practice I had like a a killer Arm day and by arm day I just mean Training biceps

Very rigorously getting a sick pump and Uh I go to wrestling practice the next Day you know pretty late I should have Been there I didn't get a proper warm-up In and the first thing I do is I shake Hands and I go to shoot a single leg and Boom I just blew my arm out the first Movement I did so just not being warmed Up properly in addition to you know Having a very vigorous arm day few hours Prior Hear the you hear that about warm up so Like what what are some lessons about Avoiding injury and uh training I would Say number one is is warming up properly Make sure making sure your your body is Hot before you do hot stuff okay uh and What does warm-up look like for you I Said Jiu Jitsu or non-juices stuff yeah Just for a warm-up in general I'll do I'll do something like a uh if I'm Talking competition something like a uh A jog walk back and forth a few times Than a Sprint jog a few times to get That heart rate you know up and down Yeah and then uh I'll grab a partner I Actually just filmed a DVD uh or Instructional specifically on the Pre-match ritual Um in addition to that I'll I'll you Know grab a partner I'll drill so some Movements uh typically I'll drill some Bad things like I'll start from bottom Bottom mount bottom side control work

Out from there and in pretty much like 20 minutes in I'm I'm hot and I'm ready To go for you know rounds Well what about you Craig so what uh What's what's the way to avoid injury What's the worst injury you've had What's the worst injury I don't even Know I'm pretty good pretty healthy yeah Whenever you whenever you quit and Practice something that's a mentally Has your heart ever been broken many Times many times but um there's a thing I notice people to spend the most time Warming up Often the most injured It's a strong correlation All right I can't you can't argue with Science I remember you're right training With all of a test Oliver ties would Have a 60 Minute warm-up yeah surprise Surprise always injured yeah very common Yeah I find that very common the Training room now I think people it's How they train like if you like me first Sign of discomfort oh back pedal you Know push through that stuff go too hard Go when you're too tired you know what I Mean get too emotional in the role I Feel like those are the times that I've Been hurt where I just like oh I can't Let this guy get me when I have that Attitude and try I believe it's how you Train and sort of obviously so what does This come from you like uh positionally

Too like because you're training against Some Killers I mean you're training You're training you're training with him And going probably pretty hard so Craig Gets a little tired he's like yeah I'm Good for today once a month for Nikki Right that's it and then you quit like 30 seconds in just so I mean yeah you Know you got to be safe you know I like it what about you what have you Learned from uh Oh so you haven't been like I didn't get Surgery I didn't do essentially and your Rehab I just have no ACL in my left leg So what's it like having no energy guys You've got two options surgery rehab Only Nikki goes I'll do nothing yeah Definitely should pick up on the rehab Um what's it what's rehab for that look Like like twice a day of doing some Weird Like bands or something it's good he's Learned from he's he's learned some Valuable lessons from about taking care Of his body yeah yeah what's it like Just training with no ACL uh so at the Beginning it was definitely a little Iffy you know I would have an occasional Buckle like I'd just be wrestling with Somebody and go to step back and it Buckled backwards a bit Um but honestly now like I haven't had a Single Buckle instance in a while uh it Feels a hundred percent normal when I

Train uh it feels better than my other Knee to be honest like I had I had my Meniscus taken out in my right leg and That one gets sore more often than the The no ACL leg okay all right so putting That aside Mr Is there wisdom you've learned from that Experience yeah uh definitely you should Be doing rehab and and prehab you know I Think that you know especially if you're A hobbyist or or a professional uh Athlete you should be lifting um you Know whether you're rehabbing an injury Or just for an injury prevention so I'm Actually closer to uh correction I've Trained my whole life like pretty hard Obviously just a hobbyist but like twice A day did Judo wrestling all that never Broke anything never injured kind of Like similar philosophy except like last Year I guess a year and a half ago I got A tiny like growing pool injury and it Still hasn't healed and I've been using Your approach of not giving a [ __ ] yeah And like all right surely this is gonna Heal it'll be fine but it hasn't but of Course if I was like an actual athlete I Would like probably still train through It just [ __ ] it figure it out but when You have other stuff going on you just Kind of wait it out yeah but no I think Probably we have especially as you get Older you have to do that kind of stuff I think it's important for people to you

Know determine whether they're what They're going through is an injury or They're just hurt a little bit because Injury you know for sure take time rehab It and get better but a lot of people Like they'll stubble toe or something Like uh you're out for a few weeks you Know so well that's that's the problem With the injury I have it feels like a Stubbed toe so I was like yeah I'll just Wait a couple days it'll be fine and Then a couple days later it's not fine And you wait and then I never got an MRI I never got any of that it's like I'm Sure I'll be fine yeah so it's hard to Know sometimes like What is hard to know I feel like a lot Of people Will just not check it out be fine well Because there's several failure cases There is a failure case of where Everything is a stub tote you're like [ __ ] it Like like you're bleeding everywhere Yeah that's fine whatever uh so you have To be careful a lot a lot of a lot of People can fall into that too I think I'm in that category go to the doctor Why do you go to the doctor yeah Your best approach is typically wait Until something else gets hurt so that You'll forget about the grain that's Yeah exactly that's I was hoping I was Hoping to get hurt so uh waiting for the

For the broken heart maybe okay that was Very helpful oh you mentioned you're Doing uh uh a whole thing on the Pre-match ritual can you kind of preview Like what kind of what's involved in Your pre-match ritual It's a pretty big in the wrestling Culture and the fighting culture like Kind of what what to do before your Competition but uh I think a few of our A few people are just kind of missing Out exactly you know what to do so I Break it down for them I break it down To people like uh four weeks in advance Um how how your you should prep you know Your trading and your nutrition and your Sleep for competition Um in addition to that I break it down Even like uh to a smaller scale for like What's how how early you should get to The event Um when you're when you should be Visualizing you know your competition uh What to do like you know 30 minutes Before 20 minutes 10 minutes five Minutes and the kind of mentality you Should have throughout those uh those Times before you actually step onto the Mat when are you visualizing like how Much are you visualizing the actual when You say competition you're talking about The the tournament or the actual people You might be competing against a little Bit of both I'll spend time uh that's

Just visualizing the crowd like if it's Going to be you know an arena with 15 000 people I'll spend time in practice And we're not like putting myself inside That Arena and visualizing you know Stepping on the mat and hearing the Hearing the crowd scream and whatnot That way you know when competition comes Time comes it's kind of the the same Deal I'm accustomed to it in addition When I get to the arena I'll step on the Mat I'll kind of look at everything I'll Expose my senses to to what it's going To be and then I'll kind of shut Everything off like a lot some people You know scroll through their phone and Can treat it like normal have this Normal conversations for me I like to Limit my sensory input my sensory intake Before I go out and compete I just feel Like sometimes I feel like sometimes we Only have so many decisions you can make In a day and I want all of my best Decisions to be made when it matters When it counts Oh what about you what's do you uh limit Your sensory input on Game Day honestly No routine nothing eh I don't yeah I didn't do anything this Guy's a double silver You should get it you should buy his Instructional it'll help you I'll get Another silver Now honestly nothing hey I just try to

Relax to relax before training have a Good visualizations or no no Visualization so the opposite of Visualization you just avoid it yeah Yeah I don't even think about it I'm Just like yeah we'll have a good time You know try to appreciate it because I Can do it By the way when you visualize are you Visualizing tough positions or you Visualize winning mostly uh definitely Visualize winning I'll visualize how I Can get how I'm going to get to my uh Most dominant positions because you know In comp I want to do what I'm best at I'm also see uh I see my opponent in his Best positions and how I'm gonna Escape Those if necessary but most of the time I'm just visualizing exactly what I'm Going to do in that match and I go out There and do it okay so what when when Your teammate Craig is you know another Like world-class athlete has a Fundamentally different philosophy than You do you visualize being frustrated at Him no no not frustrated but I'll Definitely come into practice with like Solutions to problems that Craig gives Me you know like if Craig's uh you know Catching me or something or give me Issues like you know I'll go home I'll I'll watch A Match that he lost for Motivation and I'll come back and I'll I'll put it on

Just DM him like a highlight reel of him Losing yep Uh what about you like does it does it Affect you that you're a bit of an Outlier usually before I compete right Before I go out there I go Why am I doing this yeah do I still need To do this yeah and I think like Hopefully don't embarrass myself affects My instructional sales that's the last Thought but I don't even put too much Thought into the whole competing thing I'm just like you know what train hard Hopefully have a good time out what About the motivation aspect like that That voice that says like why am I doing This that voice can break a lot of People like in a weight cut it can break A lot of people like why am I doing this Stupid silly sport like you said a bunch Of dudes just rolling around like what's The point I'll call someone with a nine To five job and I'll be like yeah that's Why I'm doing this okay you know avoid That sure sell those DVDs man yeah I Don't get too deep on competing yeah We're so polar opposite it's like almost Uncomfortable to be around you obviously One of us is a clean athlete Um you should do a DVD on that Uh what what about you in terms of uh Preparing for competition Nikki Um the the day before the day of are There rituals that you follow uh

Honestly like the the few days leading Up to it uh I it's different for me Every time Um like sometimes I'll warm up before They I compete sometimes I won't Sometimes I'll fast sometimes I'll eat So I literally it's just completely Random I don't follow any specific thing Um but in the training room leading up To the competition I'll definitely you Know like Nikki Rod visualize that I'm Walking out onto the competition mats You know I'll pick somebody that's you Know similar body type to the person That I'm competing against and then you Know we'll start out uh with some Distance between us we'll come out smack Hands and you know act like everything's A real competition I'll even sometimes Have you know Corners that will yell out Times and things like that just to Replicate it as much as possible that's Funny because I've talked to a lot of Olympic gold medalists they used to do a Podcast with like athletes and they all Sound like Nikki I don't know sometimes I'll do this Sometimes so anyway but that's also just A culture I think uh maybe the chaos of Not taking things too serious is Actually really really helpful sometimes The pressure of taking everything way Too seriously can break you I mean it's Just I think it's the biggest sport

Really you know I think if I compete Every day in practice it just makes Competition much easier so I just put The pressure on there on the competition Area on the sorry on the training on the Uh competing in the training I don't Know Olympic sports aren't that big Either financially and people take it Extremely extremely seriously like you Don't really get get that much money From Judo I mean I just don't take Jiu Jitsu that seriously because like I was Just Partying having a good time until 21 and Then I was like oh [ __ ] do I get a job Or do I pursue professional sports and I Feel like if I can made a career in Jiu Jitsu with that with a decision at that Point And now you just stumbled your way Somehow into like being at the top of The world yeah that's what I feel like I Just walked into it I feel like I Couldn't just do that in wrestling Boxing I couldn't do that in other Sports What was the toughest match you've ever Had that pushed you mentally physically Technically This doesn't have to be the best person You face but it was there like a moment In your career that was like really Uh defining for you I mean I would say like the toughest

Mentally was just this this last 80cc You know I just had a big injury leading Into it that kind of screwed the whole Camp and and weight cutting everything Up uh so yeah I would say I would say The last 80cc are you probably a Performance there like you stepped on The mat that you uh you pushed through All of it uh like I said I'm a very Competitive person and I hate losing so Definitely not yeah you got to collapse Lawn Dude He was he was so physically exhausted Afterwards couldn't breathe we had to Get medical intervention he thought he Had a collapse on so he goes with the Most the tired that I've ever been in my Life in that match I actually popped the Blood vessel in my eye I was trying so Hard he comes out he walks off the 80cc Mat backstage and I'm like I'm kind of Getting warmed up for my match and Nikki Run comes he walks over huffing a puffy His mom's right next to me looks at her He's like I think I need help I think I Was a lung collapse My mom's the one that called for medical I'll go I was just laying on the warm-up Matt [ __ ] dying Well we'll have your find Yeah Laid it all in the line uh what about You Craig defining or toughest matches I

Mean they're all pretty tough you know I Don't know I can't really pinpoint one I Mean probably the most annoying one was Obviously the one where I had Gordon and Amber I was like tap bro and he wouldn't Have so I let him out Mentally I was like I shouldn't have Done that do you ever have a thing in Your brain where it says should I [ __ ] Talk now or not and you ever you say no I'm going to be respectful I'm just Gonna be serious yeah about some of These things I don't know it's just Silly it's just yeah all of it the whole Thing uh what about you Nicorette Um dude honestly most of my toughest Matches are are in the pr the training Room right because I started with these Guys I started training under them like You know start training at DDS when I Didn't have any knowledge like of like I Knew wrestling I knew like a knee cut in Jiu Jitsu but like I started training With them when I knew almost no jiu Jitsu and then I had to like you know Really work my way up so definitely in The training room like being like having One of these guys on my back or like There's a stretch of like a few weeks or Months when kovid first hit and it was Just like four of the best Grapplers in The world and we just did Drilling in Live rounds with these four guys and it Was just it was it was hard it was very

Hard you know every every round was Doing six rounds seven days a week with The best Grapplers in the world and it's Like you get no break and you're forced To learn on the go so I think in that For me in the training room that was Definitely my my toughest matches and That's where I built you know those Mental calluses uh there was a period Where I I drew with Nikki Rod probably What nine months 12 months and typically Speaking like I said no warm-ups the First round we should take it pretty Easy first you only started Mount the Whole room the rest of the training room They take Mount very lightly me and Nikki Rudd would be fighting to the Death every day I felt like we did an Extra round every day it was very Grueling I'm very I'm very mean when I'm In the midst of drilling or a lot or Live like we would do we would drill Wrestling you know quite a bit like Stand up and in the drilling like I just Wouldn't like Craig take me down like We're not going live we're just drilling But I just wouldn't let him put me on The floor so things like that you know I knew it escalate yeah uh so you met Your mom like uh so you do positional Training so is that would that be the Hardest versus like live training uh Open like starting from guard I would Say Mount and turtle definitely

Definitely made me very tough because You spent all this effort getting off of Bottom out and then you gotta get on top Of a guy in the at the time I'm not that Good at holding guys down so Escape Quick and I'm like [ __ ] I just tried to Hold him down gotta go back down same Thing with a turtle it's like you you Start buying Turtle you're trying to Explode get out get away and then you Know you switch and this guy get up gets Up pretty quick and you're like damn I Gotta go right back down it was that Constant Circle man it's it's very tough But definitely uh you know build some Character on the map what do you think Is the value of positional training in General in Jiu Jitsu actually this one Just interacting with you guys it's not Commonly done it's just like regular Jiu-Jitsu gyms would you see because Probably it's not commonly done because It's so most of the experience is just Frustrating Like if you're evenly matched you're Basically frustrated the whole time If you're if you're doing it right these Are psychological battle that happens in Like the mountain Turtle Islands it's Like you know because you maybe you get Close to sub in a guy and or maybe you Do SUB them uh you know when you're Starting turtle and you're on their back You finish them and then you get this

High Point and then immediately you Gotta go back down to defensive posture Yeah it's very like it's emotionally Like up and down so it's hard to deal With super important if you're one of The better people in the gym because it Just puts you in positions you don't Find yourself in in regular training so I think like a lot of uh if you're a big Fish in a small pond you don't do Positional spying you're probably going To get exposed in competition you might Even look silly in those positions so You really have to force yourself to do It despite the fact that you're giving Someone worse than you a position where They might catch you so you have to sort Of put the ego aside Yeah that's one of the things when I was Training regularly of course training With you guys it's like trivial but uh I Didn't work on putting myself in bad Positions when you get better and you Regret it because the the big negative Thing it has consequence it has on Competition is you don't take as many Risks because you're kind of afraid For you back to get taken all that kind Of stuff that was me before I went to DDS I remember I showed up there in that Old position I was like [ __ ] this you Better earn this position you know yeah Exactly I didn't really have escapes I was a learning curve for me for sure

Uh do you see the value in positional Training or is it just the source of Tremendous frustration uh yeah I Definitely uh think it plays a big part In you know your confidence when you Step out onto the the competition mats You know being confident that even if You get put in the worst possible Situations you know what to do and know How to work out of them So I had a long argument with uh with Taja Gracie when he visited and he Thinks Mal is the most dominant position Even Noki Uh versus back would you is there a case To be made for that or no dude I think I Think all of your opponent's utensils Their tools are in front of them so like If you're on Mount they still have you Know there's a few ways to get out of Them out I think if you're on somebody's Back I'd personally much rather be on Somebody's back than flattened out I'd Rather have someone's back and then Flattened out boots in flattened out Yeah yeah boots and flat out so not not Even body triangle but just flatten just Completely flat almost like a position In my way you see guys get finished Because they can't get out I think that Position is probably the hardest Position to escape can you see what Hydra's talking about with mounters he Just that good at Mount like he says

That you might mean the gay cross color You know I don't know what did he mean This is controlling wise he just Believes that you can complete that There's He actually thinks there's more ways to Get out from the back of the nurse from The mount prior to getting up including Like physically prior to the Kipping Escape I'll probably agree with him but they're Keeping escapes so difficult to manage It's the funny looking Escape we uh yeah People have a lot of trouble it's like Super hard to learn how to do but then Once you learn how to do it the Effectiveness is just huge yeah it's a Weird one when that comes to be a thing They're pretty recent I mean I saw DDS Guys using it first I think yeah who's The first guy to discover something like That this seems like a ridiculous thing To discover yeah I want to fight this Wiggle I thought it was a joke at first I was You guys really doing this yeah I remember somebody's showing me like a Technique where uh like if you just like Walk your hand on a mat or something Like that maybe on a triangle or Something yeah yeah It's just like a funny Discovery like as Opposed to like trying to like shove it In just like walk it I like doing that

To people but with things that aren't True You know what I mean I'll just tell them This is a technique and watch him Try to work out if I'm being serious or Not yeah that's what you do when you Achieve Guru status they'll just listen To you like you're Steven Seagal see What they'll believe Speaking of which how do you balance you Have to travel all across the world how Do you balance that with running a School with being a world-class Jiu-Jitsu athlete Or maybe I mean the secret to travel for Me are two two drugs Xanax and modafinil That's how we time adjust and we hit the Ground running but uh what does Modafinil do Xanax supposed to sleep Yeah I mean I have narcolepsis it's a Narcolepsy medication Uh how does that work with the stairways Look I mean they work well together you Know yeah nice focus and physical Recovery uh but in terms of traveling And training and stuff it is I mean We're lucky because we've got so many High level guys so like we can we can Travel and they're still still in good Hands I mean it would be a problem if me Nikki writing Nikki Ryan left and the Gym had Ethan that would be a problem But we got to make sure it's not just in There

Um although everyone says they're happy When you're gone so that's the moment I Heard happy when I'm gone but they do Miss me yeah for sure until I get back All right uh what about what about you Just like balancing it do you try to Stay completely focused on competing Like for some of the big matches you Have coming up are you able to kind of Diversify well I like the uh yeah Diversify my training to where you know If I'm don't have a competition Scheduled I'm more focused on skill Development and you know getting better And broadening brought in my tool shed Um but you know if I'm like six weeks Before comp I really start uh amping up The intensity that I bring into the mats Against bringing some of that visual Visualization towards practice and uh Maybe I train less volume Pre-competition but um higher output per Session yeah what is uh what's the Perfect week of training look like if I'm not if I'm not in competition mode I Would say Monday Wednesday Friday twice every Other day just once uh if I'm pre-comp Just Monday Monday to Sunday once a day So that's on the mat you're doing the Full like positional training live Training what's up cows oh yeah I do a Lot of bicep curls yeah I left a few Times a week now yeah yeah cardio or no

Card is all messed up cardio's all mad Stuff I do I do do some Crossfit Workouts like crossfits I'll do like Some imams or some amraps or CrossFit You know terms that's for Instagram yeah Um but uh yeah CrossFit is uh is a good Way to Um kind of like push that that threshold Sometimes on the mat because I'm I'm so Good I can't always get that that like Full red line so I hop in across the gym And I'll do some workouts that uh you Know bring me closer to death Uh what about you Craig what what is a Perfect week in training look like like When you're back home training I try to Be the gym twice a day every day when I'm back just because I travel a bit More than uh these guys so I try to be There 8 and 12 every day hang out in Between uh usually definitely usually Train both of those sessions depending On how my body feels you're doing Positional doing everything like Technique positional live I should Probably do more positional because I'm Just trying to work on wrestling and Stuff and especially leading up to the Volcanovskis last while I was trying to Wrestle more and focus on those areas Even before I traveled over there just Some experimentation with some stuff but Yeah yeah how do you experiment with Stuff like how do you so there's like

Regular positional stuff but when you Have ideas Like what like where do you do it in During the training sessions to do it Outside of that you get you get together With somebody usually every session I Show up with something I'm thinking of Usually selling from Top maybe selling For bottom but and then I just try to Maybe pick the right people some people Obviously I'm just fighting to the death With it's not a good time to experiment And then others obviously you can you Can play around with ideas on Okay uh what about you uh what's a Perfect week look like uh maybe well you Said you're 100 now yeah Um so yeah honestly I have pretty much The same schedule as Nikki Rod so Monday Wednesday Friday I do twice a day uh Every other day once a day and then uh Normally uh noon practice is like our Biggest class that's where you know all The pros go in so I tend to do more open Rounds there and then we have a 7 P.M Class as well which is more hobbyist uh And that's where I'll do my positional Rounds and you know force myself to be Put in uh bad positions So you have what you do eight a.m 12 Like in terms of what B team has 8 am 12 And 7 p.m and the hobbyists are more 7 P.M yes okay Do you believe in overtraining

Do you think you can over train I used To not believe in it but I then I got Hurt I was like all right oh you Attribute that To over training I think uh dude I'm Telling you I train I listed like a Bodybuilder for like seven years and by Lifting on me I was lifting seven days a Week and I train arms most days like Almost every day I would do like you Know four or five sets and get a get a Pretty good bicep pump In addition to my lift I think I that Had to contribute somewhat towards Towards my uh Yeah fair enough well what about on on The actual mat over training like Spending too much time on the mat well Psychological physical overtraining I Think you can definitely over train but It's more of a uh I guess your body's Healthy you have to make sure your mind Is sharp like sometimes uh maybe taking A a day away or even even diverting your Attention in a different aspect of Training can help you be a little bit Sharper overall sometimes it can be like Uh it can get a little like Um stagnant because you're doing the Same stuff over and over but I think if You just keep like you know over Training then your overall Baseline just Gets higher and you that becomes you Become you know accustomed to that

Uh what about you you don't seem like a Guy that over okay I've heard of it I've Never been close to it Now I think uh controlling uh how do you Train is definitely protects you from Injury you know what I mean like if You're redlining yourself and then You're fighting to the death of the gym That's 100 when you're gonna get injured Gonna get sick so I try to make sure I've I've had enough sleep I've had Obviously enough food post training and That sort of helps me to train a bit Harder but still try to avoid red line Of myself too much I think established Also like what days are going to be your Peak days because you're eat throughout The week if you're training seven days a Week you're going to have ups and downs Like for me personally when they when Wednesday Thursday Friday usually my Best days and besides that I also have Other great days Oh my days are great but Monday Wednesday Friday are also great You're like unable to admit that some Days are offering than others I'm always on bro okay uh what advice Would you give to people who are not Always on uh hobbyists How to get better like people are Already there I don't know purple Bells Brown Bells black girls they're just Like doing like a couple times a week or

Something like that like how to get Better I think uh being consistent like find a Schedule that you can consistently train Maybe it's like you know three four Times a week or even a little bit less Just be consistent over the over the Years I think too too often people are Like oh I want to get really good really Fast and it's like definitely takes a Long time to get to where you want to be What about the what you're doing during Like while being consistent what kind of Stuff you're working on So honestly I think one big thing uh for Me which is something I actually started Doing once once B team was formed was uh Filming all of your rounds and then Watching it every day because you can See what specific problems you're having And then you can base your positional Rounds around those problems That's really interesting it's kind of Depressing though yeah like sometimes I Have to you know I edited this podcast For a long time I still do in part and I Hate the sound of my voice and like what I look like it's tough but it does make You better Yeah and I also hate the sound of Craig's voice This would be doubly difficult Um I'm glad glad the rest of you are Here I don't know

What do you watch competition footage of Yourself Um like to analyze like you see yeah my Confidence that's [ __ ] good while You're doing curls yeah I'm still Watching Is there advice you kyrgy would give for Hobbyists to get better I mean just uh And not every round has to be a fight to The death you know I feel like you're Going to get injured you're burnt out That way you're not going to learn as Much it's tough I would say just as a Black bug who took just very seriously For a very long time Basically when you become a hobbyist Your skill is basically slipping your Age and your skill And so not taking stuff seriously is Actually its own psychological skill of Like you go That it's tough it's tough like it's Tough in a way that uh is different when You're like a blue belt or something That you're if you work hard and you Train correctly you're going to get much Better Here you're kind of you're looking Downhill you're looking downhill and You're like Yeah I guess I'm gonna enjoy the art of It reframe the victory you know like if It's a young upcoming guy and he comes To me you're like well that's a moral

Victory you know yeah but then that that Has to happen you have to be able to not Do that to avoid the injury sometimes Like if you want so yeah it's a Different it's a different thing plus Plus with me just Because some people recognize me they You have that probably you guys Definitely obviously have that I've Solved that problem how did you solve That problem travel around you do a Salmon or anything like that yeah it's Believable that you could get submitted Once yeah but if they catch you give Them a few yeah If people tell their friends they Submitted made a seminar yeah one time Believable yeah they got me four or five Times yeah you've robbed them of that Okay that's pretty funny but it's also They have this energy Like they think you know they're coming In hot and I I usually like to uh just Basically get submitted quickly twice And just it changes everything it makes It more fun I've noticed let them submit You twice yeah just like very quickly What you can like what are the options Hold off But then it's like it's very hard to Like yeah if you're a very serious Competitor and so I need to take it Seriously then yes but Like then people go people what they try

To do this probably is what happens to You guys they try to impress you by Going super hard I I have people every Day come to my gym try to take me out Yeah you gotta I just stay sharp come to Practice Let's Get It On Uh do you do you feel that energy I feel Like I need to talk to Craig here Like somebody's coming like really hard Like a brown belt will come in like and They really want to impress you with Like their technical side of their big Fan they've been watching your DVDs like What do you do with a guy like I'm Making complete joke out of the row you Know give him the pass mess with them do Stupid [ __ ] you know like rub them of The realness of it because it's stupid I'm Not Gonna Roll hard with strangers You know I feel like you should roll With a circle of people you trust Injuries Happen rolling hardly strangers because That's the same way you get injured in Competition because you don't have that Uh relationship with them and I should Also mention that's probably not a good Way to impress somebody's bike just Going ape [ __ ] going 100 oh yeah that's Not at all I think the the beauty of Just is like the camaraderie of it like As you get to know each other it's like Technical like different ideas you have And all that

Yeah okay do you think uh Gigi Jitsu is Dying in popularity Craig Yeah it's a long dead I I think it's just I mean it just shows Like uh I mean I have heard some numbers On the viewership for the world's finals And they don't even compare to the Undercard of like who's number one Events so I think like when I was coming Up and competing in the gear all the Time you looked at those guys that won Black power championships and you were Like in awe of them it almost had that 80cc Champion feel but now that's not The case You know I just feel like that a younger Generation aren't looking at who's Winning black belt key worlds I Personally don't think and I don't think They're like they want to be that guy Don't want to be like a Rotolo Gordon You know those are the people they want To emulate you so you think like the Ghee like Abby JF ghee tournaments will Just keep declining popularity I think People will still do it I mean it's Easier I think as you're over 30 because The key is a bit of a slower thing and The Masters participation is bigger in The ghee because obviously a nogi is now Heading in a wrestling Direction Wrestling in heel hooks you're over 30. That's a terrifying Prospect you know What's terrifying about the ghee less so

I think in a participation rate the Average death will still be good but I Just don't think people are as Interested as they used to be why is Wrestling and heel hooks terrifying well He looks I can vaguely understand if you Don't understand heel hooks we work a Desk job and you've never wrestled in a Guy double likes you that's gonna Probably break you back you know I think The older guys are scared and wrestling It's hard to wrestle with 40. to learn Wrestling at 40. is he yeah so yeah I Mean I think it's even just hard in General to do wrestling at 40 but it's Easy to pull God pull half guard in the Game 40. I think it's harder to do Judo At 40 and people still do it at 40. Judo Hurts more yeah scarier than all of them Yeah I think does wrestling really hurt In 40 It does interesting I feel I agree with You saying that uh Judo looks like the Most dangerous like even their their Practice Partners they're just getting Slammed flat Bueno yeah I did I mean I Did Judo for a really long time there's A lot of people that are 40 50 60 do Judo and they get they're the ones that Are still alive though That's true uh Survivor bias you do a Little bit of uh Judo right maybe I'm a Yellow belt you're a yellow ball and Judo I should be your instructor

Promotion orange I got a yellow belt in The sixth grade I believe was the sixth Grade I did it for about I don't know Six months but you're also using uh Judo In uh competition basically all right Aren't you doing like harai type throw Like you're doing uh yeah I don't know That I just started doing it you just Started lifting your leg in various ways Until it works just figuring it out yeah Okay doing different kinds of trips I Looked at the [ __ ] guys doing I was Like I can't be that huh yeah gave it a Crack well they they looked at your foot Locks and they said that can't be that Hard they said cut me that hard ban it From the tournaments All right Uh what do you think is the best uh take Down In uh nogi Jiu Jitsu like what uh Like if people were trying to train for Competition and so on like where you see The trends heading I think those foot sweep is like Catching fire nowadays still up a lot of Foot sweeps uh foot sweeps and arm drags I would say pretty pretty popular in our Sport arm drag she's just go I'm drafted Okay arm drag either to get him like get To uh behind them or even just to cause Reactions make them pull away and we can Start reattacking are you talking about It in a context of what's the best

Takedown to school what's the safest Takedown to mitigate the risk of Guillotine submission Or most effective in general yeah most Effective combined combine yeah yeah I Mean I mean I think it's about scoring I Think any sort of uh body look you know What I mean look in your hands around The body being able to put them to the Floor that way I feel like that's most Effective safe this might even ever have A risen out of a leg attack a leg entry Upgrade to the body what about uh like Foot Scoops like outside foot sweeps What are we I would say yeah you know uh Foot sweeps from outside foot sweeps or Even like something like you're tossed Unemployment body and you're sweeping The foot yeah those are all pretty safe See why is that scary I don't understand It's not scary at all I think it's the Lifts that are scary the lifts yeah Who's lifting people We're talking about older guys doing no Geeks some of those old bosses take it Very seriously they just start lifting Trt worlds GRT they're coming they're Coming to impressive lift all right just Just for the gram okay uh what about Submission what's your favorite Submission and what do you think is the Most effective submission Except the buggy joke I would have to Say the rear naked it's definitely the

One that's hit the most and the uh the Highest level of competition was that uh That was pretty interesting to see you Escape all that and to put put it on That's the cool thing about ebi to see Like the world-class athletes I was surprised that it's possible to Escape with you on his back they're Gonna try some of the base cream oh yeah B cream yeah that helps What's in the brief what's the formula Or is that secret that is a proprietary Blend for sure okay But that's what you use for greasing That's what you guys said before Allegedly Um this is the other application outside Of grappling or I'm sure you can get Creative all right thanks Asking for a friend is that RNC for you As well you're naked uh free naked choke I mean overall favorite for like Solidifying a finish because like you Can put you can put some ice sleep right Even if they don't want to attack put Him to sleep but as far as like Something I've been working on now that I'm I'm now starting to implement Competition Yoko senkaku side triangle Is like it's a beautiful thing you have Multiple options you have the triangle To finish if that fails you have the Kimora you could break the arm you could Also just transfer and take the back so

Yokosukaku I'm a big fan of and I Continue to progress even better at it Have you ever broken anyone's arm oh Yeah I mean the first first few Competitions because I was like you know Pretty athletic Grappler or athletic Wrestler going against like local black Belts and brown belts like my one of my First matches I broke somebody a Kimura Um pretty much every time I've got a Heel hook which is only twice I've Broken an opponent Um if I have a joint lock it's probably Gonna break like a lot of times it Breaks before they attack yeah it seems Like really friendly fella how hard is It to break an arm or any break a joint Well I don't think it's that hard I Think um like if you're talking like About an arm bar we have this position To where like people are kind of holding On holding on and then it slips and Their arm starts going and then it just Just breaks before they even you know Get a chance to tap One time and it was actually It was surprising I had to put a lot of Force into that I suppose some shoulders And the ligaments in the knees and Ankles but to fully this kid [ __ ] kid Fully Let It Go and he tapped it I think The angle is like up here they're built Different Hopefully he can be reconstructed

All right Um what about a straight foot lock You've ever Do you guys do straightfor locks at all Or no uh yeah I mean I'm learning them Now we had some kid come come into Practice one day and like All of us straightfor look just this Little like polish kid did he feel like Everyone but he told the entire world Yeah I thought it was interesting when You get like Yeah people that specialize can surprise You that this could be effective stuff Uh do you think there's other stuff that Could be still discovered in Jiu Jitsu Like what what areas do you think Are ripe with uh techniques to discover Like wrestling is really interesting now There's a lot of innovation happening in Wrestling I think there'll be more Innovation when uh we get people that Are more adamant about standing up from Bottom position I think if we get more Of the community they're like all right I want to get off the bottom I think Just stand up just stand up how did you Just it doesn't work we actually changed The name how [ __ ] doesn't work if you Just died All right I'll change it to jiu jitsu When I pirate it and send it for free to The entirety of the Soviet block Do you think ego is useful for martial

Arts or does it get in the way okay I Think you need to use it uh in both ways Um for sure I have an ego like if you're If you're training competition Um but also it can prevent you from Learning and progressing if your ego is Too high like you really have to shut The ego down when you're in the mode of Learning and trying to you know develop Skills because you're going to put Yourself in these bad positions you're Gonna have issues with a training Partners that aren't necessarily you Know up to up to your skill level but Because you're in these bad positions You have to make these certain Sacrifices and for sure Eagle can be a Good or bad thing but if you're able to Shut the ego off and learn then that'll Have huge progression when it's time to Put the ego on into use during Competition when's the last time you put Uh shut the ego off it's been a long Time What about you Craig do you uh do you I Mean he seemed to be super easy going is There like is the ego just not part of It oh for sure I just don't want anyone To know they've damaged my ego you know You have to suppress it deep down There's a child underneath all of it Crying always for sure I think he goes Good for a bit of perseverance you know Like it'll help you stick it out against

A a tough battle with a training partner For sure a bit of egos on the line plus The banter back and forth we're trying To like stir each other up a bit Yeah I Think that helps hone sharpen the ego a Bit Uh what about you did you try you seem Like a super humble guy is there like a Monster underneath it's a total ax Who's in the basement I think uh eco's a Big motivator Um you know I think it's very good to Have in the aspect that it like it'll Drive you to help to to want to be one Of the best in the world Um but like Nikki Rod said you need to Be able to turn it off in the training Room and you know force yourself into Bad positions where you may not be Winning Uh are there like uh you know Don Harris Mentioned Boris uh are there like Grapplers like boy this is a question From Reddit actually uh Boris like Characters anybody you've trained with In the past who doesn't compete but is Just an absolute beast in training Like people you've met they're just like Well somebody that I think has a Probably the best like submission Grappling in in MMA I think like Gilbert Burns is a is a his submission grappling Or something he's very very good I train With him early early on in my graphing

Career and I was really impressed by his Ability to to move hold down opponents Are trying to stand up and as a whole You know he can he can get some missions And put people away Have you when's the last time have you Trained them recently or no no it's been A few years was just some impressive uh Ability to submit you're saying yeah Like I mean you know you would see I'd See Gilbert go against a few like pretty Decent black belts in the room and Farewell and you know maybe he gets to Their back puts a choking and it's like Gilbert's super high level uh grappling Or submission grappling yeah but he's Pretty widely recognized as a monster so I don't know that's even really answer The question What was the question All right well Is there people like you've done all These seminars so they're just Especially in in the in the Eastern Block He went to Kazakhstan is there Killers Out there that oh yeah there's tough Guys out there obviously I don't Remember the names nor could I pronounce It if I did but definitely some tough Guys out there obviously carrying skill Sets over from from wrestling for sure Not [ __ ] but wrestling wrestling but Yeah they're just people that surprise

You they just don't compete that are Really good are there have you met those I feel like it's less so today because There's so many so many more athletes in The sport but definitely when I was Coming up back like in Australia and Stuff there were guys I'd train with That wouldn't compete and that would be Like super tough rounds for me yeah and There's so many more avenues for Competing in general so yeah Um the word by you have you met some Monsters yeah one guy I could think of In particular is uh Jason Rao he's uh he Trains uh up in Long Island I think Right uh opened up his own gym out there Um thank God yeah Vanguard he used to Compete but he would never be able to Compete at the same level he would train At so now he's just focused on mainly You know opening up a gym and and Teaching his students uh but he was a Guy that was you know extremely good in The training room you know world class I Still think to this day he's he's Legitimately one of the best in the World uh but just doesn't compete Anymore Who wins in a fight a lion or a bear Polar bear just for you right no not a Pull well yes it's a good question You're all you're polar bear is pretty Impressive no Grizzly Bear Grizzly Bear I think Chrisley bad wins well who was

The most threatening predator in Australia It's a tricky question here because Everyone's scared of the animals in Australia but I mean you've been last night you've Been by spider that's not that bad bear America bill just hold you down to eat You that's a much more terrifying Prospect for me even shocks shock's Gonna be quick no one sees the shotgun The shock's just gonna watch it we'll Take a bite and chew a bear just holds You down and eats you so that's uh That's frightening for me Australia is a Bunch of just weird [ __ ] that could kill You juicy cocaine Bear the movie that's Coming out I saw the trailer it looks Good yeah yeah so there's not every bear There's like black bolts in this black Belts there's bears and there's Bears so That I think that's what they often Don't talk about everybody puts lions And bears in the same category I think There's just some weak Bears a lion Would kill a black bear I think not Every black again I'm trying to tell you There's there's difference but Grizzly And Paul about betting on those yeah no I think Grizzlies have the size but Actually every video I've seen of Grizzlies they tie out within like 20 Seconds they get bored that's the gas Tank yeah this guy that's a Nikki Ryan

Gustang right yeah that's all that's all They got dream old and they try to just Uh they try to just take a breather like There's these crazy fights between bears In the last like 20 seconds I heard this Story about a a Russian family that was Attacked by a bear in Russia and uh Killed the dad and it took so it took so Long to eat the daughter she made three Phone calls to her mom I was eating her And the first the one thought she was Pranking her That's crazy that's way scarier of them Give me a snake bite food yeah you know What let me let me change the question Is um like if you had to Uh fight a bear or a lion How would you try to defeat it do you Think you have a chance at all well I Think I'd uh I'd attack a line a little Bit differently What will be the difference okay well I've seen this video where Um a lions are eating and and you have Three like scritty guys walk up behind Them and kind of scare the cat off of Yeah off of their food I think uh maybe I produce some props scare the line away Right but if I have to fight it Um If I have to fight it straight on I mean The thing is that you can even if you Take the back like you can't like bite It or choke it the main is too big to

Lock your hands around you know are you Sure about that because I mean it's just Hair yeah It's like it's like matted hair right I Don't know so I think you think you can Take me back a drawing a lion maintain Yeah yeah but but getting there getting There I think I fake high go low right They don't think I'm going for the foot Or something a little paw sweep and I Take the back uh what about a what about A bear I feel like they're easier that Might be easier to take um to hold back Control yeah maybe the thing is if the Bear falls on its back you're just gonna Crush it so it's so big it's Substantially bigger than a line right Like a uh yeah and they're also like Terrifyingly like loud with the rewards And stuff yeah I think I think so first Of all I saw Grizzly I'm like all right He's gonna attack me I try to yell a Little bit louder than maybe the term a Little bit like give them yeah and then Uh yeah for sure I try to get behind it I probably go like uh something weird Maybe like pull the eyes out or Something you know for sure I mean I'm Going for the vital organs you know I'm Play dead play dead and then oil check It there's no there's no pride in that Well Pride even matters see the ego the Same advice you give you got to put the Ego aside with a bear

Even then Even then Uh would you how would you fight a bear Or a lion just play dead like that yeah All right could you be the camera Uh oh yeah kangaroo I'd beat the [ __ ] Out kangaroo yeah yeah I mean are we Boxing gloves we just like how would a Kangaroo attack a human try to kick him With the claws knock them down and then They chug him stand on that tail the Kangaroos do yeah they don't choke each Other you don't believe me you don't Watch your video they check each other Out Strange [ __ ] like if there's a predator Around there waiting a pool of water and Then if it comes to attack they drowner They're pretty smart Uh okay speaking of which what's the Most effective martial art for winning Street fight You talked about rule sets and streets I think you've talked about being have You ever been in a street fight yeah Just one yeah nothing special nothing Crazy hey yeah you don't talk about that Time like for self-defense purposes Will be a strategy on the street whoever Wins the street fights whoever's willing To take it the furthest the fastest you Know what I mean if you're thinking You're gonna box and he's biting you Bugging your eyes that guy's gonna win

He wants them more you know what I mean That's why the crackheads fight they go For the kill straight away you know so I Feel like it's more about who's willing To do the most that's going to win that Fight Fastest the most fastest Who's got the least to lose you know Okay we could also Define winning Differently because you could also run Away But in terms of technique wise Wrestling I think if it's a one-on-one I'd go I'd go wrestle wrestler wins but If it's like a you know it's like a Multiple people you gotta go Muay Thai Stay on their feet can't go down to the Ground if it's more than one person Yeah big double leg Maybe Yeah double A put him asleep on the on The impact right forehead to the ground Yeah what's the goal here is to win the Fight not go to prison Um I haven't thought of it through that Way yeah certainly yeah yeah now go no Not not to kill you got mutual combat Here in Texas we're good is that in Texas do you know with the paperwork for That looks like you have to actually Sign something can you just say oh I Don't need to find out I did hear a story where guys were on Sixth Street and they looked at a cop They were like mutual combat mutual

Combat yeah and just got like the cops To say yes and just duked it out they Could be false though That sounds crazy I I kind of admire that but I've also Been playing Red Dead Redemption Recently so I've like internalized the Cowboy a little a little too much just To return to gym stuff No because it's a business because You're running a business there's money Involved but you're also friends Um but you also training Partners is There um attention that money creates That can threatens to destroy Friendships That's something I always worry about With money I try not to go do any kind Of business with friends or family I think if it were all very clear and Honest and open at the start makes it Much easier Um I think people have issues when There's like kind of like things are Written and fine print and nobody knows The exact answers And a lot of jujitsu guys can't read Yeah that makes it we're learning that Today yeah hey Uh no Um definitely complicated though Yeah I mean it's not always obvious to How to be transparent and stuff and Uh about everything

Um have you felt that tension because in The Jiu Jitsu World money is not really Unlimited just running at school what's That like because it's the first time You're running a school Running a gym Yeah I mean it's just constantly Updating people about what's going on What your expectations are you know what I mean we've had some problems with Coaches who I feel like think the pie is Bigger than it is yeah you know what I Mean they feel like uh maybe we're Getting rich out of this and they're Missing out on things so it's like even Amongst managing staff that can be Challenging too So yeah I mean it's a constant work in Progress to make not only to make sure Everyone's happy but to make sure They're comfortable enough to reach out And tell you they're unhappy But I feel like those challenges are Common amongst any small business Still it sucks uh just to mention I'm Clueless to this but I'm just not Learning this Uh somebody I met and talked to and I Really like is Isaac Yeah just learned because you're also Active on Reddit what's your name on Right John Belushi's mom as on the cover As possible you know oh it's not you It's uh it's actually it's actually John

Belushi's Mom right Uh so and I've done my research I guess And I guess you guys had ahead of Falling out and have split I just want To say that I don't know the few interactions I've Had with him he's a beautiful human Being so and that just shows to me Visually maybe not internally and it's Actually just the experience that no uh She's just a kind person I don't know I Like them a lot Like to me in a business setting Um yeah tensions are created and it Sucks I don't know I mean I I suppose money all the stuff That happened in the jungle aside Probably money had a role to play to Create extra tension money and egos About like who is the leader who is not The leader it's tough it's tough to Manage that kind of stuff I've seen it Happen when Jiu-Jitsu schools a lot I Don't know exactly what because it's Like there's also a hierarchy inside Grappling Jiu-Jitsu schools like people That are better or not there's literally Ranks black Builder brombo there's like Competitors that are better I mean I Don't it's a weird dynamic in which to Operate because like usually there's More politeness and like Humanity Layered into the way a company works but

Here there's just a bunch of I mean it's Like violence laid on and on display Plus money It's crazy is there something you could Say to that like how you try to minimize Or something you want to comment on Isaac yeah I mean it was unfortunate Situation but it just didn't work out You know like there's going to be Personality clashes Some people uh uh I can't imagine anyone Having a personality clash with you with Me yeah it's hard to imagine yeah Surprising You know I mean I I didn't even know What to say on that I don't want to Touch on it too much but obviously His expectations about his role in the Gym obviously different from house uh Led to some personality clashes that was Sort of unresolvable you know some Things happen that can't be resolved he Can't fix those things yeah you know uh Obviously a lesson I hope for both of us Definitely a lesson uh for me from a Management role to try to address these Things sooner but also sometimes I came Up in a different time where there was No money no opportunities I had to pave That I had to pay that way totally for Myself especially coming from Australia Like uh being a professional athlete in Jiu-Jitsu was not I think so I had to Pave a lot of opportunities for myself

And I feel like sometimes uh Oh I don't know what the right word is Sometimes people don't appreciate some Of the ways you help them and they just Think feel like almost they deserve or Are entitled to certain things and that Is very difficult to manage but I think Again like we we both see the situation Different I do hope he finds a better a More comfortable place to train but yeah Obviously I've known him for a long time Sort of like a a brotherly relationship So that's gonna really Make personal problems a lot worse when You're that close to someone you know I Just hated that like I've seen in Jiu-Jitsu especially but in other places Where like close friendships were Destroyed because of like gym stuff Like people running gems and it's just As a person who is in this case just a Fan but in like in general just like a Student it's like sucks but again in my Position sometimes I wonder if there Really was a friendship or mere Opportunity I have to be careful of that With some people in the sport yeah is it A sincere relationship or like I mean It's difficult for me to tell or am I Means to an end Sure but I think it's actually a Trade-off because I think a lot of Close friendships we have like even Relationships we have

Like when tested Like can break if they're not properly Communicated like some of it could be Just misunderstanding of like for for a Long period of time Um not not it's not explained it's Really just like a lack of Integrity It's just like you like you have to like Talk through that [ __ ] like just be Honest with each other take some MDMA Really get down to it drugs solve Everything if you've learned anything From this conversation I've actually Haven't done MDMA yet uh people say that That's something I would enjoy a lot Because my brain is I think natural on MDMA Um I'd recommend it for sure for sure All right Um is that what you did with Gabby and Valentine okay Um she drugged me In general why is there seem those seems To be drama in the Jiu-Jitsu world like Outside of outside of what's going on Here or is that just uh I guess Universal to anything dramas everywhere And then drama Rises to the surface okay Imma makes the money yeah I wish there Was a little bit less Uh you've uh you have a bunch of like we Mentioned some of them you have a bunch Of instructionals out what are some Interesting things that uh you're

Looking forward to like exploring uh in Terms of teaching so just stand up as Your most recent one right yeah you also Have one called power bottom and Inclusive modern approach to the guard Your time what are some other what are Some other ones false reap allegations False people allegations yeah by the way People talk about Powerball again Hilarious title but they say it's a Really good instructional unlike the Guard yeah I try to I try to at least be Innovative you know like everyone else I Feel like ripping off John and Gordon Putting some sort of slots on that so I'm trying to take sort of a different Approach uh I think you can actively Influence the sport with what you Release because people are going to try To emulate that so I think that's those Type of instructions just stand up power Bottom like approaching the sport Definitely I think definitely has a Positive impact on how people play the Game yeah are you working on something Now Probably a fundamentals uh course just Because we're bringing out within the White Bell program coming in so I'm Trying to develop a fundamentals course Along the line of the constraint based Learning stuff we were talking about Today like a way to approach learning as A beginner to sort of speed up the

Process a bit and I'll make it as so Technique dense at least having a bit More fun and focusing in on just like Examples of problems to solve exactly Yeah approaching Jiu-Jitsu learning that Way like I mean kids learn quick through Games I think adults are capable of that To a certain extent as well you're Releasing that instructional on Pre-match Preparation yes well what Other stuff the other thing in a body uh By a lot pass yeah I have a I have a Body like a writing like DVD or Instructional Um yeah the pre-match ritual coming out I also have Um I'm filming uh how to build Athleticism for grappling I'm just Really trying to capture different Angles kind of like the same you know With Craig's doing uh try not to do the Same thing that everybody else does you Know there's a ton of wrestling ton of Jujitsu instructional instructional so And the steroid results are coming in oh Yeah yeah more Place more dates you know There that runs that um Hit me up for a blood panel test like an Imprompt thing and uh I did it a few Days ago and I believe the results will Come out shortly oh yeah I do you know The results what are you betting on Lex What do you think it's hard it's hard to Believe yeah it's it's yeah it's very

Very impressive You're putting me in an awkward position Here Do you do you think you'll Face Gordon Soon Um I'm open to it I don't know I don't Know how soon maybe in the next six Months I could see me facing him before Uh ADCC worlds I think that's a great rivalry I think It's a really interesting one it's fun For me Um is there any chance That the the the two the Soviet Union And Nazi Germany get back together Um the DDS under whatever name gets back Together No absolutely highly unlikely I mean we Kind of did this to you know um to back Up Nikki Ryan and you know we're Sticking with our guy Also what what do you think uh yeah I Think there's just too many personality Conflicts for it to to Really Ever work Again Do you think there will always be war in The world War yeah oh yeah I think from the from The beginning of time it's it's been you Know some kind of War some kind of Battle controversy it's what what helps People evolve Uh until AI super intelligent AI becomes Way more powerful than humans

And humbles all of us with his power Before he destroys us no until it runs Out of batteries It has a screwed Just unplug it That's awesome Um I'm really fortunate to be able to Hang out with you to train with you uh And thank you so much for talking today All right that's the best ending Thanks for listening to this Conversation with Craig Jones Nikki rod And Nikki Ryan to support this podcast Please check out our sponsors in the Description and now let me leave you With some words from Miyamoto Musashi You must understand that there's more Than one path to the top of the mountain Thank you for listening and hope to see You next time